1 Reply by Raptine

(156 replies, posted in General discussion)

1. ICE

I'm the oldschool masochistic player that actually enjoys a grind and firmly believes that subscription and online time should be the only currency in game (even though I have practically none of the latter myself). I don't like PLEX in EvE and I will not like ICE in Perpetuum.

However, I am well aware that the above is a royally screwed up, to say the least, and outdated business model. ICE is good for the game and I will not ragequit over it.

2. EP Catchup

On this I am strongly against. Your proposal is not well thought out - Blackomen has already painted a potentially bleak future. I do understand that it stems from a very real concern and I admit, I don't mind the one-time restricted (example 2 weeks double EP on subscribing after trial) EP boost.

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2 Reply by Raptine

(16 replies, posted in General discussion)

@Nibbles

My advice is to join a corp. I am aware it is ironic that a year+ old player like me gives that advice and I am still in the starter corp. However, that is mainly due to my RL constraints due to which I tend to disappear for a couple of weeks every month or so.

Alternatively set yourself a goal - mine is at the moment the biggest grind in Perp - kernel research.

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3 Reply by Raptine

(56 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

No, this will still stay Amazon exclusive. And again, it's not "free EP", a kickstarter code still has to be purchased.

I see it in this way - I can either pay a monthly subscription with no EP or I can buy a one time offer at the same price of a month subscription and gain a 20K EP bonus. 

Albeit it's not 'free', my cash outlay is the same with said EP bonus. If walks like a duck.... you know the drill.


Ville wrote:

A lot of the guys have been using random US addresses.

Does this mean it is only available for Americans? I have no issues with a one-time offer (anything to get more players to experience the game) but I would be quite miffed if the offer is not available to everyone.

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4 Reply by Raptine

(56 replies, posted in General discussion)

hmm "free EP"

Someone said in chat that this kickstarter code is only available to some countries from Amazon. Is that correct?

Will we be able to buy from the Perpetuum website?

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5 Reply by Raptine

(3 replies, posted in Bugs)

About 5 to 10 minutes before the post - approximately at 8:50 (Timezone is currently GMT+2)

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6 Topic by Raptine

(3 replies, posted in Bugs)

I completed a small Asintec Alpha to Tellesis Main private transport assignment earlier on. I noted that the assignment completed as soon as I entered Tellesis Main Terminal with an event logged as Private Assignment Reward which included the collateral and the reward itself.

However,

a. The assignment is still listed as accepted in the tab and I can't remove it.
b. No transaction was recorded in the transaction tab although the wallet balance was modified accordingly.

Are these bugs or am I doing something wrong?

Is it possible to split the reward in two transactions - collateral received back and reward?

Edit 1: On relogging the assignment tab has cleared so please ignore point (a) above. Point (b) still applies.

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7 Reply by Raptine

(7 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Confirming Kalrok's post above.

I have the same issue with accumulator expansion (upped it to lvl 9). Travelled from Daoden > Tellesis > Attalica with the following results:-

Daoden - Extension not applied on terrain (4372 accumulator on a Lithus)
Tellesis - Extension applied (4455 accumulator)
Attalica - Extension bugged again and not applied on terrain (4372 accumulator)

I hope this is not a bug affecting Alpha 1 islands only. Perpetuum needs to retain the new players.

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8 Reply by Raptine

(87 replies, posted in General discussion)

Awesome work Doek!

I just noticed that my profile lists Expert Efficient Mass Production as a rank 3 extension while in-game it is listed as a rank 5. The description is also garbled but that may be due to IE8.

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9 Reply by Raptine

(8 replies, posted in Guides and Resources)

Xyberviri wrote:

Ill work on this when i get home tonight i have two industrial toons with refining 5 and diffrent relations at the bellicha outpost on new virginia. so i can get you some numbers when i get home.

Afaik, Bellicha Outpost is a Level 2 refinery. My calculations are all based on a Level 1.
Thanks for the help though - appreciated!

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10 Reply by Raptine

(8 replies, posted in Guides and Resources)

Forgot to add in the OP that the main formula's are all from Naruby's post. I suck at linking.

One other thing I still have not yet figured out completely is the extension level coefficient. If (big if) my math is sound then there should be an explanation why it differs from Naruby's formula.

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11 Topic by Raptine

(8 replies, posted in Guides and Resources)

I’ve been looking for some time to find a relatively accurate refining formula on the forum but I have not had much luck. The sites and formulas (Naruby and Warux's ATG) I found do not tally with the actual numbers I see in-game – at least not accurately enough for my tastes! In some instances the difference is quite substantial.

TLDR – lots of maths and assumptions that are probably wrong. The purpose of this post is to get it flamed, corrected or confirmed. Have fun doing either yarr. I have a horrible suspicion I missed something important - T4 flamesuit available cool

DISCLAIMER: I am not a mathematician - jargon might be incorrect.

I am aware that we do not get to see the actual decimal places in both the in-game Factory Material Efficiency (ME) value and the Relation percentage value.  I started with the numbers I could obtain from the game over 3 characters – one of which was created with the only purpose to check waste on refining with absolute 0% in both ME and Relations. Characters referred to as Indy, Control and Combat from now on.
All calculations based on obtaining 300 Titanium by refining Titan Ore at a Level 1 refinery (ICS Alpha). The 300 number is arbitrary but large enough to hopefully minimize rounding errors.

Facts (numbers from the game)

(Indy / Control / Combat) = Legend

Factory ME % (ingame) – 89 / 75 / 76

Extension Level – 6 / 0 / 0

Relation % (in-game) – 6 / 0 / 8

Titanium required – 300 units

Titan Ore required  - 9000 units
(w/o waste = 30 ore per trit unit)

Current Ore Requirements (in-game) – 10,002 / 12,000 / 11,751 units of Titan Ore

Waste (in-game) - 1,002 / 3,000 / 2,751 units of Titan Ore

Preliminary Calculations

Waste % factor is [(Waste/Ore w/o waste)*100]

I get values of 11.13% / 33.33% / 30.57%. This calculation is borne out with the following formula (expanding to 6 decimal places for accuracy 0.111333 / 0.333333 / 0.30567):-

[Ore w/o waste*(1+decimal of Waste % Factor)] or for the Indy char example 9000*(1+0.111333) = 1,002 units wasted and confirmed in-game.


I also worked out the unshown decimal places in the Factory ME % by [(Ore req. w/o waste*current ore req.)*100]. Results are 89.98% / 75.00% / 76.59%

Assumptions

A. The control char has 33.33% waste which translates to a Level 1 refinery co-efficient (without relations and extensions) of 0.333333 which is significantly different to other numbers where I have seen 0.317 and 0.03 being used. I assume that this co-efficient will remain constant throughout.

B. Following above, the combat char with no extensions records a 76.59% Factory ME which translates to a 1.59% increase in ME with a recorded 8% relations. This might be the root of the formula on the forums where people calculate the relation coefficient decrease in waste as [relation %*0.002].

C. However, I think the relation coefficient decrease in waste should be calculated on the decrease in waste %. So Control char records a 33.33% while combat records a 30.57%. The difference attributed to 8% relation (no extensions on these 2 chars) is 2.76% or expressed in 6 decimal places as a coefficient we get 2.76/8  = 0.00345 which I rounded up to a nice number of 0.0035.

Basically, I think a 10% increase in relations will decrease your Waste % value by an absolute value of 3.5%. (assuming relations are linear).

Extension Level Coefficient (reduction in waste)

The formulas I have seen suggest the following formula [Extension Level*0.03]. However, this was not giving me the right numbers either. Reverse calculating back using Naruby's formula:-

Waste % factor (in decimal) = [Level 1 Waste coefficient] – ([Extension Level Reduction Coefficient] + [Relation Reduction Coefficient])

For the Indy char whereby I know for fact the Waste % factor (decimal) is 0.111333, we get:-

0.111333 = 0.333333-([Extension Level 6 Reduction Coefficient] + (6*0.0035)]
[Extension Level 6 Reduction Coefficient] = 0.201
Therefore, one Extension level reduces the Waste % Factor by 0.201/6 = 0.0335.

Assuming a certain variance due to the unshown decimal places, other assumptions above and many reverse calculations, I settled on 0.033333 as the one Extension Level coefficient.

The Big Question Mark

A couple of hours and too many assumptions later I came up with this formula which fits the 3 chars I have:-

Waste % factor (in decimal) = 0.333333 – ([Extension Level*0.033333] + [Relation*0.0035])

Leading to:

Actual Titan Ore required to refine x1 unit of titanium = [30*(1+ Waste % Factor in decimal)]

The formula works for me for any other commodity atm. I do need more data from others since 3 chars are hardly a significant statistical sample.

Annoying Relation Decimal Issue

Obviously the numbers above have a slight variance which is due to the unshown decimal places in the relation bonus. Keeping all the assumptions above, I actually worked out the decimal places for my relation bonus which theoretically should be 6.27% for the indy char and 7.91% for the combat char. Interesting to note that if I am anywhere close to being right, the relation bonus is rounded up to 8% in game.

Weird Stuff

For a while, I thought the extension level +3% to ME was compounded over the initial 75% value. I tried it out but the numbers came out all wrong when I took the Level 1 refinery coefficient (control) as 0.333333. In fact the relation bonus was not resulting linear over the 3 chars. Also, the combat char disproved that notion with his 76+% ME without 1 level of extensions. Following that line of thought, 8% relations resulted in +1.59% ME while 6% relations was giving me less than 0.5% increase.

The 0.002 value for the relation bonus was even weirder when I was using Naruby's formula and comparing to my in game numbers – in some instances the 8% bonus was resulting to be less beneficial than the 6% indy relation bonus. This was using the fixed 0.333333 Level 1 refinery ME coefficient value. When I reversed the situation, I was getting different values for the refinery coefficient. I though this was improbable and hence started on a new track.

Edit: hopefully amended all tritanium references to titanium - thanks Annihilator
Edit2: Amended last sentence in Assumptions section - should refer to a decrease in waste not increase in ME.

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