951 Reply by BeastmodeGuNs (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2013-10-29 15:27:37)

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Re: Spark Teleports

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

very funny. even if you could do that it will only work once. and if it works ppl will adeps and not throw you a blob to kill 2 bots and keep the rest in reserve.

Quoted from Page 5 of this fine threadnought

I have not seen people adapt like this zortarg, i have seen alot more excuses then usual lol

FYI could not help but quote this piece of work fuuu

beast, you should not judge others by your own standards. just because you are not the best at adepting to situations does not mean others also cant do.

maybe we should leave the thinking to the horses. i have heard they have bigger brains.

Sure as hell better at adapting then the guys who use the same tactics every fight which is just to bring big numerical advantage as much as possible lol (you guys)

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Re: Spark Teleports

Illustrated. big_smile

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Re: Spark Teleports

why not just allow sparking on alpha 1 and 2 islands and perhaps a cooldown one for gamma. whilst i can understand its good to be able to defend your outposts and SAPs on beta by sparking it does kind of break the game for newer players and corps. there is no element of surprise really. you turn up to a sap and the whole corp teles to their outpost undocks in mechs and facerolls you smile which is only fun the first few times. it also means its much easier for a larger corp to hold control over lots more of the map that they dont even use.

954 Reply by Line

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Re: Spark Teleports

I don't think that attacking an OP should be an easy job. If you're decided to attack one, be sure that you've brought enough powers for that.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086
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Re: Spark Teleports

Line wrote:

I don't think that attacking an OP should be an easy job. If you're decided to attack one, be sure that you've brought enough powers for that.

Ehm... ability to form up prior to intrusion event?

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956 Reply by OptiKhan (edited by OptiKhan 2013-11-02 00:08:50)

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Re: Spark Teleports

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

very funny. even if you could do that it will only work once. and if it works ppl will adeps and not throw you a blob to kill 2 bots and keep the rest in reserve.

Quoted from Page 5 of this fine threadnought

I have not seen people adapt like this zortarg, i have seen alot more excuses then usual lol

FYI could not help but quote this piece of work fuuu

beast, you should not judge others by your own standards. just because you are not the best at adepting to situations does not mean others also cant do.

maybe we should leave the thinking to the horses. i have heard they have bigger brains.


Wierd, you said 'bigger'.  Did u mean 'nygger'?

No offense to anyone offended, I am just trying to clear up my misinterpretation.

Some people play checkers, some play chess...  Once in a while you can find a guy playing GO.  The former is prey, the secondary is a teacher, and the latter is a general.

957 Reply by Line

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Re: Spark Teleports

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Line wrote:

I don't think that attacking an OP should be an easy job. If you're decided to attack one, be sure that you've brought enough powers for that.

Ehm... ability to form up prior to intrusion event?

Indeed. But how about an ability to form up for attack? How about an ability to bring more friends for PvP? Why on Nia are you trying to balance things making opposite fleet lesser instead of increasing your own fleet?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086
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Re: Spark Teleports

Line wrote:

Why on Nia are you trying to balance things making opposite fleet lesser instead of increasing your own fleet?

because they dont have the numbers and this is their only way left. ^^

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Re: Spark Teleports

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Line wrote:

Why on Nia are you trying to balance things making opposite fleet lesser instead of increasing your own fleet?

because they dont have the numbers and this is their only way left. ^^

your argument is invalid.

the reason people talk about spark teleports and want them changed or removed is not because they are on the losing side, but because its a mechanic that ruins general PvP and roaming, in one of our latest fights at TMB where the numbers were about even, our comrades from DEAPR had to travel from hershfield to get to the action, and not just spark over and be there instantly, thats the kind of thing stuff should be like, where if people are not in position at the proper place and don't have home base set to that proper place, then they have to travel to get to the action, not just insta spark. after steam release as i mentioned, no one will every want to set foot from beta terminals because 100 people will spark in on those people if they do.

Trust me, when steam comes and you get 100 people spark hotdroping you, only then can you understand why we want the spark mechanic changed/removed, it decreases PvP via roaming, increases station camping. And one of the reasons you guys are against any change atm is because you guys have so much territory that without spark teleports you will lose much of it. But the reality is, for a game of this size, naturally you would not be able to hold that many OPs, but spark teleporting allows you to.

Even if spark teleporting stays, AT LEAST, AT LEAST, remove it from beta!

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960 Reply by Jita

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Re: Spark Teleports

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Line wrote:

Why on Nia are you trying to balance things making opposite fleet lesser instead of increasing your own fleet?

because they dont have the numbers and this is their only way left. ^^

your argument is invalid.

the reason people talk about spark teleports and want them changed or removed is not because they are on the losing side, but because its a mechanic that ruins general PvP and roaming, in one of our latest fights at TMB where the numbers were about even, our comrades from DEAPR had to travel from hershfield to get to the action, and not just spark over and be there instantly, thats the kind of thing stuff should be like, where if people are not in position at the proper place and don't have home base set to that proper place, then they have to travel to get to the action, not just insta spark. after steam release as i mentioned, no one will every want to set foot from beta terminals because 100 people will spark in on those people if they do.

Trust me, when steam comes and you get 100 people spark hotdroping you, only then can you understand why we want the spark mechanic changed/removed, it decreases PvP via roaming, increases station camping. And one of the reasons you guys are against any change atm is because you guys have so much territory that without spark teleports you will lose much of it. But the reality is, for a game of this size, naturally you would not be able to hold that many OPs, but spark teleporting allows you to.

Even if spark teleporting stays, AT LEAST, AT LEAST, remove it from beta!

This isn't the problem, beast is just a ***.

What is the problem is that you can move from everywhere to everywhere instantly. This would mean that if the population was high enough to require many islands to sustain it all of those people could instantly be on one island to defend it. This makes territory control a joke and encourages blob warfare. Without sparks you would have to defend what you derive resources from mainly with effort based defense of other places. This is also why infinite spawns of minerals is a joke - basically its to your advantage to have over 9000 people on one island when in any sane and balanced game this would not support such a population.

Bottom line is:

Infinite spawns and sparks encourage blob warfare.

Blob warfare encourages two faction servers.

Two faction servers are dull and squash emergent gameplay driving away new players

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

961 Reply by kot (edited by kot 2013-11-02 19:40:13)

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Re: Spark Teleports

I agree with Jita on a lot of points here, but looking at the distances players often have to travel(time to spend), it's just not practical without Spark teleportation.

Even going to pick up few modules and bots from Tellesis and moving them to Norhoop(as an example) takes huge amount of time and that's not even long distance to travel. It's crazy.

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Re: Spark Teleports

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:

Even if spark teleporting stays, AT LEAST, AT LEAST, remove it from beta!

we could come to a agreement with:
"... you can not spart to beta unless the station is owned by you"

963 Reply by Jita

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Re: Spark Teleports

kot wrote:

I agree with Jita on a lot of points here, but looking at the distances players often have to travel(time to spend), it's just not practical without Spark teleportation.

Even going to pick up few modules and bots from Tellesis and moving them to Norhoop(as an example) takes huge amount of time and that's not even long distance to travel. It's crazy.

with teleports not really tbh. Plus your talking across the map travel. hersh is right next door.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Spark Teleports

with 1.5 mil interzones, there is no need for the broken spark system to stay as it is

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Re: Spark Teleports

The sparks as is

smallscale PVP killer!

Need to think out DEVs.

966 Reply by Line

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Re: Spark Teleports

But this game isn't about small scale PvP

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086
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Re: Spark Teleports

Line wrote:

But this game isn't about small scale PvP

NOt 100% but it forms a very important part of it. Without it the game doesn't function properly smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

968 Reply by Line

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Re: Spark Teleports

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Line wrote:

But this game isn't about small scale PvP

NOt 100% but it forms a very important part of it. Without it the game doesn't function properly smile

True, but that doesn't mean that we should concern on a part instead of the whole, is it?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086
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Re: Spark Teleports

Line the problem is, the small scale PVP is the pepper of Perpetuum and if dosen t work properly the "whole"  also isnt. This is the basic idea behind.

But I agree dont need focus just this aspect, that why I wrote "think of it".

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Re: Spark Teleports

Without SpT pretty much all current pvp dies....

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

971 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-05 16:54:40)

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Re: Spark Teleports

I believe without Spark Teleportation, people are more willing to go and start living on Beta islands. At first, probably a lot of PVP dies until people adapt, but in the long run PVP will be healther.

Don't think Spark Teles should be flat out removed or turned useless. Just little bit of tweaking and it's good.

^ That's not the stance I've held for the bigger part of this thread. At first, I pointed out that Betas actually need to be useful for anything to have any effect but now with the Epriton change, I think we are there.

972 Reply by Martha Stuart (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-11-05 17:25:42)

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Re: Spark Teleports

If you remove Sparks all together you will not get any Small scale PVP.  But martha!! "what about roaming?" you ask, Good question astute reader!!  Come roam on my our gamma islands and you will get a fight.  you will also get slaughtered because, as Deathmonkey so eloquently put it: Castle doctrine.  If you come to s*** on my lawn, I'm gonna bring the biggest baddest s*** we have, to smash you. Small scale PVP is basically dead, the only time you will get small scale PVP is at the few SAP's that people actually defend.  Which right now is basically like 1 or 2 OP's.  And if you remove the Sparks, most people can't be assed to be at a defense except for those who want the SAP loot.

The only time you will get small scale PVP is when a stronger corp goes roaming looking for indy's mining/harvesting on Beta.  This will only apply to the smaller corps because any of the major power blocks will have enough people to mine epri and have about 10 combats out protecting them, so if you go at one of the strong corps you better bring a big fleet.  And if you do that, then we are no longer talking about small scale PVP.

Sparks didn't kill small scale PVP, Gamma's did that.

973 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-05 17:55:00)

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Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:

...
Sparks didn't kill small scale PVP, Gamma's did that.

I agree with you there, but I think the only reason for that was that Alpha+Gamma combination was superior to Betas in every way. The only reasons for Betas were SAP loot, like you pointed out, and tokens. If no-one is living on Betas even semi-permanently then there can't be much PVP besides SAPs(which is naturally blob PVP).

It's still salvageable but needs delicate planning.

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Re: Spark Teleports

You talked about getting hold of a few CEO's and talking to them about it - in fact thats just what the devs did in beta where they asked some of us what we would need to make living on beta worthwhile.

We told them:

Better spawns of mineral than alpha that are within reach of a station making ganks possible but also possible to counter

Intrusions to be less costly which was changed too.

A reduction in the efficient of stations so that alpha 1 was the worst, alpha 2 better and beta the best

Removal of tier 3 missions and moving them beta only

The devs responded and beta ownership exploded.

Over time the devs slowly removed all the incentives that made beta worthwhile:

Ore fields vastly reduced

Having a good ore field on beta didn't matter as alpha spawns became infinitely renewable

Mining risk increased with removal of static spawn

Intrusions became a horrible CTA infested grindfest

Now you can be locked out of your home base

Then the devastating blow came - Gamma. This essentially gave you all of the original incentives to live on beta with the ability to make it very difficult for the enemy to bother you. Beta becomes worthless.

This still CAN be fixed by making beta what it was. Bring back the fixed spawns. Bring back the huge red fields. Bring back resources that can run out.

Once again there will be a REASON to live on beta.

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Re: Spark Teleports

Shadowmine wrote:

Without SpT pretty much all current pvp dies....

because you will dock up every time theres targets since you cant spark everyone instant anymore when the change happens lol

That one forum warrior