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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

A lot of crying about something that clearly should have been done a while ago.

If you think mining Epriton is too dangerous for you or the NPCs will touch you in a bad way, then you have option to buy it from open market. Players will adapt and more PVP opportunities is only a good thing.

At best, its a temporary increase in PVP, unless of course a new line of equipment comes out that requires gamma ores. THEN its a whole new game.

This change is just the same game, without gamma islands.

52 Reply by Tux

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga wrote:
Tux wrote:

Non beta holding corps will have to ninja or take stations to get to the "goods"

If I was going to do it, I wouldn't bother owning a beta outpost. It's too much defending for no gain.

We would live on alpha, and wouldn't have to Ninja mine. We would just go in with suffcient force and take it over for an 'epi day'. Meanwhile indy would mine all week long on alpha while pvp players go out and harrass beta owners.

Ide still prefer to mine the unmolested mineral fields on gamma vs alpha. good luck with that one

and you dont think may others would be doing the same>?

these changes only benefit the play style that you and others have had over the years ...  your corp was never able to keep and hold gamma not because you guys didnt want to but because it didnt fit in your play-style. Instant gratification will be coming back soon brosef yarr

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

It's like hitting a switch, make beta's the end all be all, with just one change without looking at the consequences, adapt to the old ways but with random field spawns. There is no grey area with you Devs sorry to say that but its true.

RIP PERPETUUM

54 Reply by Tux (edited by Tux 2013-09-04 18:50:11)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

DEV Zoom wrote:

Tux: there is a chance that the amount of epriton traded on the market will go up too. Unless everyone stays in the "I HAVE to mine it myself, that's the only way" mindset.

I might consider selling it @ 50nic a unit but other than that its not going to be worth selling ... like I said everything worth any thing will double if not triple in price

which is not a bad thing (for those who can afford it)

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:
Arga wrote:
Tux wrote:

Non beta holding corps will have to ninja or take stations to get to the "goods"

If I was going to do it, I wouldn't bother owning a beta outpost. It's too much defending for no gain.

We would live on alpha, and wouldn't have to Ninja mine. We would just go in with suffcient force and take it over for an 'epi day'. Meanwhile indy would mine all week long on alpha while pvp players go out and harrass beta owners.

Ide still prefer to mine the unmolested mineral fields on gamma vs alpha. good luck with that one

and you dont think may others would be doing the same>?

these changes only benefit the play style that you and others have had over the years ...  your corp was never able to keep and hold gamma not because you guys didnt want to but because it didnt fit in your play-style. Instant gratification will be coming back soon brosef yarr

This isn't corp dialog.

If you already have a gamma base, yes mining there will probably be easy. But there's no incentive for anyone that doesn't already have one to waste the epi and time building one just to mine alpha ores.

56 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-04 18:52:24)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

The more Epriton rises in price, the more people will risk their bots to go and mine it.

With Epriton at 50NIC, I can see newbies visiting fields in even Arganos and Sequers and pulling out a lot of NIC fast.

Arga: The good thing about gamma bases is still beacons and production bonuses.

Arga wrote:
Tux wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Tux: there is a chance that the amount of epriton traded on the market will go up too. Unless everyone stays in the "I HAVE to mine it myself, that's the only way" mindset.

I might consider selling it @ 50nic a unit but other than that its not going to be worth selling ... like I said everything worth any thing will double if not triple in price

which is not a bad thing (for those who can afford it)


and that's good for new players how?

Good for new players because they can benefit from the raised Epriton prices and make some NIC.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Tux: there is a chance that the amount of epriton traded on the market will go up too. Unless everyone stays in the "I HAVE to mine it myself, that's the only way" mindset.

I might consider selling it @ 50nic a unit but other than that its not going to be worth selling ... like I said everything worth any thing will double if not triple in price

which is not a bad thing (for those who can afford it)


and that's good for new players how?

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

The more Epriton rises in price, the more people will risk their bots to go and mine it.

With Epriton at 50NIC, I can see newbies visiting fields in even Arganos and Sequers and pulling out a lot of NIC fast.

Arga: The good thing about gamma bases is still beacons and production bonuses.

If you already have a gamma base, sure you'll continue to use it, but its not worth building one from scratch just to get the bonus.

No one is going to pay 50 nic for epi, because no one will be able to afford the modules and bots an alpha producer would need to charge to recover that.

59 Reply by Lemon (edited by Lemon 2013-09-04 18:56:39)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

@Zoom

Might as well flip a coin to make the right choice. Do you design the game to be enjoyable now or to be support a health population?

To not get to head over heals in theory's and possibilities to be blunt the road you are heading down is not easy and could work out or blow up. Forcing the conflict to be over epi is only going to cause a short-term increase in PvP but lead to the same if not a increase the rate at which PO is losing players.

PvP is not occurring and this is in a attempt to remedy this. Why not enable people to access PvP easier than try forcing fights through vulnerability.

How many Veteran corps do you see losing miners, hell go back to when we only had beta and the "veterans" never lost miners. These kinds of changes effect the little guy much more and may create a short-term stimulation but will inevitably in the long run cause more harm than good. How are these players supposed build bots to compete or even gamma building,while still just trying to stay alive to mine? *Epi is in everything*

Undefeated 2013
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"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

60 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-04 19:01:58)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

You are underestimating Gamma base bonuses, Arga. Do you know the amounts?

Lemon wrote:

These kinds of changes effect the little guy much more and may create a short-term stimulation but will inevitably in the long run cause more harm than good. How are these players supposed build bots to compete or even gamma building,while still just trying to stay alive to mine? *Epi is in everything*

But how is little guy supposed to compete against anyone who has secure gamma base and can mine Epriton as much as he pleases with little danger?

Right now the little guy is either buying Epriton on the market or throwing ninja mining ops, which would continue in similar manner after the patch hits live. Only difference is that vets with established gamma bases will have harder time getting Epriton, meaning the change actually benefits the little guys.

61 Reply by Tux

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga wrote:

This isn't corp dialog.

If you already have a gamma base, yes mining there will probably be easy. But there's no incentive for anyone that doesn't already have one to waste the epi and time building one just to mine alpha ores.


To the point some one already made this effectively makes gammas as useful as betas or alphas are now

this just shifts the problem from one area of the game to another ....

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

You are underestimating Gamma base bonuses, Arga. Do you know the amounts?

It doesn't matter.

I know how much time, NIC, and raw resources to build just the base we had.

Let me rephrase that, It doesn't matter with the current level of PVP.

If I was going to fight a M2S level war, than it would be worth it. But to make a couple dozen bots a week to replace roaming losses, no.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:
Arga wrote:

This isn't corp dialog.

If you already have a gamma base, yes mining there will probably be easy. But there's no incentive for anyone that doesn't already have one to waste the epi and time building one just to mine alpha ores.


To the point some one already made this effectively makes gammas as useful as betas or alphas are now

this just shifts the problem from one area of the game to another ....

Well yeah. I say that too. It's not a game changer.

Ideally, they would release gamma ore items AT THE SAME TIME as they remove epi.

That would be a game changer.

64 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-04 19:20:05)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga wrote:
Burial wrote:

You are underestimating Gamma base bonuses, Arga. Do you know the amounts?

It doesn't matter.

I know how much time, NIC, and raw resources to build just the base we had.

Let me rephrase that, It doesn't matter with the current level of PVP.

If I was going to fight a M2S level war, than it would be worth it. But to make a couple dozen bots a week to replace roaming losses, no.

Someone who has spent a lot of EP under Industry to get his bonuses up would obviously think that, but my newbie producer, with about 170k EP in total benefits a lot from that base. I can actually produce on nearly the same level as you guys.

Sure, a brand new newbie corp isn't going to go out and build a big gamma base, but anyone established enough wanting to gain industrial edge will still do it and not just for production. You also gain a reasonably safe Noralgis garden and place to run beacons.

All I see this change about gamma bases now is that there's no real reason to make the island 100% safe, if you are happy with mining other ores from Alpha and hauling them in. If you choose to secure all the teleports too, you benefit from not having mine and haul low ores in from Alpha.

Anyway, I'm getting probably a lot of negative rep here for saying these things, but I really think it will benefit the game in the long run.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Here's a thought...  Make ALL ore only available on Beta, with some being factional!

66 Reply by Lemon (edited by Lemon 2013-09-04 19:13:30)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

Right now the little guy is either buying Epriton on the market or throwing ninja mining ops, which would continue in similar manner after the patch hits live. Only difference is that vets with established gamma bases will have harder time getting Epriton, meaning the change actually benefits the little guys.

I should be building my mutli-tile siege bots/ammo and guns trying to kick over your castle competing to be king, while jr over there gets used to PvP on beta.

Which could all consume larger ammounts of Epi.

We need to continue to vertically grow in a time-based game to allow others room to grow. If we get to big for the shark tank all we can do is keep feeding off the bottom once there is no one left at our level and nowhere up to go. Its only a matter of time before the food below runs out.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:

Ide still prefer to mine the unmolested mineral fields on gamma vs alpha. good luck with that one

and you dont think may others would be doing the same>?

these changes only benefit the play style that you and others have had over the years ...  your corp was never able to keep and hold gamma not because you guys didnt want to but because it didnt fit in your play-style. Instant gratification will be coming back soon brosef yarr

I am curious please go on about our play-style and how gamma did or did not fit in to it? Arga and myself are the best people to clear you up on that seeing, as we lead the gamma frontier

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga wrote:

Ideally, they would release gamma ore items AT THE SAME TIME as they remove epi.

That would be a game changer.

and one that would make sense

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

DEV Zoom wrote:
Heliaso wrote:

How mining mission will work on beta if the field is under NPC ?

It's impossible to tank them with an industrial bot.

Well, how did they work so far? As far as I know there are missions right now asking for other minerals than epriton.


I just tried a mission with HDT under NPC.

It's true , i used an argano ,you can tank them  with a termis or riveler except you can't avoid ECM and suppressor.

http://fr.twitch.tv/perpetuumonline/b/456348287

Sorry for the video quality.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Excellent changes devs. Thank you for giving miners some element of risk and profit back smile. Not all of us are content to sit in 100% safety and mine away nearly worthless ore when there are profits to be made yarr

This is a step in the right direction away from total gamma safety and self sufficiency.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

This goes back to an arguement I had a long time ago.

PVP players would never stand for having to fit 'indy' items on their bots to PVE, but it's expected that indy bots give up slots for combat (defense) items.

It still pisses me off.... but it's not relevant really to this thread.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Arga wrote:

Ideally, they would release gamma ore items AT THE SAME TIME as they remove epi.

That would be a game changer.

and one that would make sense

What would make the most sense is a 1800U collixium based hauler.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Sundial wrote:

Excellent changes devs. Thank you for giving miners some element of risk and profit back smile. Not all of us are content to sit in 100% safety and mine away nearly worthless ore when there are profits to be made yarr

This is a step in the right direction away from total gamma safety and self sufficiency.

LOL  Sun... You're just drooling because you'll be able to get back to ganking indy smile

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Arga wrote:

Ideally, they would release gamma ore items AT THE SAME TIME as they remove epi.

That would be a game changer.

and one that would make sense

What would make the most sense is a 1800U collixium based hauler.

sry arga. still way too small. we have enough hauler. we need a freighter.

75 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2013-09-04 19:34:05)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Arga: Gamma industry is still worth it. The T3 facility levels combined with the mining auras and current levels of safety means its still worth it to live, mine, and produce on gamma. Even if they took that complete safety away, it would still be worth it. Now we just need to import epriton from players willing to take risks.

We have re opened an old forgotten style of gameplay, the high risk high reward miner. This is good for the game.

EDIT:

In reply to the ganking thing, I was never big on actually ganking miners. I only did it when I was in a roaming gang. I was however huge on ninja mining epriton and other ores on beta. Its how I supported everything else I did ingame.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.