Syndic, I'm not saying a t1 light bot should be able to solo a Kain or any other mech. Or that even a group of them should be able to kill one without taking heavy losses. I'm saying they should be able to catch it and fight it.

Mechs, especially when flown by richer and better skilled pilots, have huge advantages over light bots. They hit way harder, they have a vastly superior tank, and they have way more fitting capacity and accum. That's all fair. But they shouldn't be able to entirely avoid even taking damage from us noobs in our light bots even when we fit for speed. Thy shouldn't be able to effortlessly control range when our guns can't hit nearly so far.

No combat mech fit should be faster than a combat fit light bot, even our ghetto fits. Just like no light bot fit should be able to tank better or hit harder than a mech.

I don't mind dying. In fact, I embrace it! Death is glorious!

But at least let me have a chance, however slim, of killing him by letting me catch up to the bastard. Fair is fair!

So then you don't mind us being a bit faster, is that what you're saying?

I don't disagree the odds are against us. So what. I've fought worse odds than that in EVE, and come out on top in situations that'd blow the mind of anyone just tabulating it. C-Beams off the shoulder of Orion etc etc.

Death don't worry me. Long odds don't worry me. Not being able to catch my bigger, stronger, more experienced, richer and generally better connected enemy in my light bot with cheapo gear? That does.

No, you totally misunderstand me, I'm saying the lights are already fast enough as it is and all it takes is a T3-T4 frame to get them going far above Kain speeds. You also need to bear in mind Kain is ~8-10 KPH faster then all the other mechs, thus balancing T1 framed light bots against Kains would severely screw up those other mech pilots out there.

BUT, its a scaling issue. IF you are able to put on T1 frame and be faster then a mech, that automatically means anyone putting on a T4 frame on a light-bot is faster then you; thus we go from mechs being faster then you in T1, to everyone else being faster then you in T1.

Get what I mean?

The tracking in eve is more advanced at the moment, this game dosn't take into account speed, range or angle of approach when calculating hit chance or damage. But you are right with the balancing, adjusting how lock times are done would hopefully give smaller bots more time to bridge distance gaps aswell as making ewar more useful in keeping them alive longer.

I think it should come down to where it is a flat standard across the board, No Assault Bot should out run a Light, No Mech out run an Assault, and no Heavy Mech out run a Mech. So if that means adjusting speeds within the game, so be it.

Lights are just that, lightweight, light guns, the scouts, by rights. They are fast, at least in to 110 KPH if not faster. Fitted with Sensor boosts, they should be able to out range any other bot / mech electronically, (unless damped / area jammers....New modules?) so they see trouble before actually running into it at optimun range of Mech with demobs and get 1 shotted. 

The Assault Bots are the Anti Scouting Bot (area Jammers to reduce radar range within a specific radius) / Heavy Scout and General Purpose use . They should be be in the range of 90KPH.

The Mechs at 70 KPH are the base EWAR / Battlefield Logistic platforms and or fire support.

The Heavies in the 50 KPH and basicly a walking (EMPHASISE WALKING) Turret of firepower and armour or Heavy EWAR / Battle Field Logisitics.

These should be the standard speeds with 0 EP bonus's or Lighweight frames applied. When you have Mechs out running Light Bots, you know the game is not balanced quite right. Ok, you strip ALL the armour out of a Heavy, and have the lightest of modules fitted and have Navigation at 10, then at most, that mech should be doing 76 KPH.

If you want speed, you have to sacrifice something, that being Armour and modules.

Maybe bringing into the game engine upgrade modules (Low Slots). An example might be better plasma injectors for an over all increase of 3-7% speed increase based on the Tech level.

What this is intended to do is make the Squad Leaders / Patrol Leaders think about their squad composition and bring a little bit of complexity to PvP ops make up rather than everyone load up for bear and going pew pew (which is fun but tends to get a little tedious after a while) It is also a means to ending the blob per se, where you have a gang of gun ships, torn apart because their composition was not thought out properly, got sensor damped and ECM, and picked off by a lesser number of opposing gun ships but who had the right logistics and support in place.

Just a few ideas anyway.

T4 light frames are painfully expensive for a ground up starting corporation to use on ops.  Looking at the market trending and keeping in mind the possibility of the market having been polluted earlier due to item exploiting (looks like it started in april from this graph, and ended in June) they will consistently sell on the market for approx 1.7mil. 

T3 lightweights about 30 pricing at 420-430k.

I have industry running the numbers now but I suspect that this is quite inflated due to a) few T4 prototypers and b) 'It will be used against us' + 'nic is meaningless (for established beta corps)'  pheonemon.

As 99% of the new corporations are fitting assaults and mechs primarily for PvE at this time (as they all tend to follow Rule 1: Don't pilot what you can't afford to lose) the pricing is daunting at best, crippling at worst - which is why people are focusing on making the most NIC/hr as they can, and there are cries of 'courier missions broken' - likely primarily from people running one account and not doing them . 

It is difficult to afford what is being put on the market while internal corporation industrial ops can not generate the modules that are needed/wanted for ANY purpose, at least at this time.  There is no guess as to when the prototypers will unlock T4.

For the moment I am not even thinking about NeX, though by watching the corporation function I have a small microcosm to view in regards to playstyles. 

The current influx of players that I have seen are: Independent, Capitalistic, Paranoid   This means that regardless of the SIZE of the group, the advancement will move at the same speed as a smaller group.  The smaller group will get overall less kernels, but the larger group will tend to use more of their influx for personal need (selling on open market).

All of this to support the argument - yes, if we could just grab a T4 frame, we wouldn't be newbs.  It sort of feels like telling a noob in any game "just fit Fabled/Faction/Purple gear lol."  Which, yeah.

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I play MMOs. I need a signature which is deep, thought provoking, and devours bandwidth with the voracity of rabid weasels. It is also, by nature, vaguely sad with a tinge of my obvious internal, unfathomable loneliness. Like this,   , but at 1.3megs packed into 2 by 6 inches. ANIMATED.

@ Wodan

You're perfectly describing the current game balance. You can bring a 100 assault blob and you will still lose to a properly built and organized 20-man squad with ECM/supression/demob/RR support.

@ Winter

I disagree, it takes a week at best to grind enough kernels to be get T3 lightweight frame knowledge finished & working on T4. With the way observer kernels work, this can - with some luck - be wrapped up in a matter of days. Its REALLY not that big of a deal, the only thing it requires is to put the corp before the NIC for a little bit and focus on that research.

Having a gang of independent, capitalist and paranoid players is fine; sure you'll have way more personal NIC then any of my guys (for example), but it will be 9+ months before you are at any technological level that lets you field anything but T1 with a smattering of T2/T3.

The solution isn't to adapt the whole game to your playstyle, the solution is to adapt your playstyle to the game. Do you have a dedicated researcher account that all kernels are fed to? Do you have scheduled daily farming ops where that researcher gets 300-400 kernels daily? Do you prioritize which technology you want first? All of those questions need to be taken into equation.

@ Aeon

Mechs are only faster then Light bots if the light bot is using T1 frame or plates, and the Mech is using T4 frame. A bot that takes 20-30 minutes tops to grind with transport assignments outperforming a bot that takes upwards of 3 days of transport assignments?

What are we talking about again? Either there is a reason to grind kernels & increase your production or technology, or there isn't and we can all just roam in T1 light bots. One point you need to understand, there is simply no way you can get T1 bots to be as good as you want them to, without removing the complete technology tree or petitioning the Devs to wipe everyone's knowledge base.

Because Corp A will fit their light bots in T4, you'll still be fitted in T1, and you'll still be in the same position where you are kited & killed, or chased down & killed. There is nothing wrong balance-wise with mech speeds, the T1 vs T4 balance is a good incentive to grind kernels.

What would really happen with T1 light bots being faster then mechs:

1. Whole server would swap to T4 lights as new FOTM, cameleons intakts and troiars would replace the current EW mechs being used because speed > all.
2. T1 lightbots would become the old EW gangs, engage and disengage at will and run away with superior speed.
3. Every mech pilot would see his bot become completely useless for roaming outside of intrusions which never happen anymore.

You forgot, i get to 1 shot MOAR PEOPLE! MHUAHAHAHHA

By this same line of reasoning, a t4 fit assault should never be able to out dps a crap fit mech no matter what. We shouldn't even have t4 mods, just remove everything from the game that's not t1.

It's the poor man's variation of the "buff me, nerf you" whine, where anything that he can't afford is unbalanced and thus must be nerfed.

Cost = balance. You get what you're willing to put on the line. Those unwilling to risk the nic/resources don't get to win.

The adjustments to masking helped give assaults a unique role and reason to specialize in them.

And if you are complaining about t4 lwf mechs eeking out t1 assaults, well my suggestion would be learn to play. Buddy of mine told me this newb named thiole was making 10mil per hour mining & producing within a couple weeks.

MRE 3000 is like 1.5mil. L2P

Stopped reading after the first paragraph.... Syndic has nightmares of the old Norhoop alliance *** gangs. I still think that's the best single point i've ever spent in my extensions, as rolling multiple mechs and light ewar tackle *hi cookie monsta!* with a few t4 framed laser fit yagels and a couple fast tacklers was some of the most fun i've had in this game.

This economy is in no shape to be able to evaluate profit on a NIC/hour basis.