26 Reply by Rage Blackout (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-18 00:46:15)

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Re: instant logg out

STC  / Burial is already abusing the crap out of it.

The moment they think they are going to get caught, they instant.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

Ok, so the only way this can work is if all mods shut off when someone presses instant log.


That we can live with.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

Huh? The fix I was talking about was in the 11-05 patch:

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2013-11-05

* Fix: Player robots remained on the terrain indefinitely if they got locked after an instant logout.

I wouldn't call that "on a whim". Did you really need more than a month to notice this change?

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Re: instant logg out

How about a easy fix for now untill some thing else comes up thats better.

Once a player goes offline from server or w/e all mods on the player shutt off  meaning AMPs,shield,Repairers,Detectors, so on.


Its not perfect in any way but its a fast and easy fix

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Re: instant logg out

The answer to this question is NO.

It is called combat logging.

If a bot is caught and he doesnt have other PvP bots with him to defend themselves, Logging Out shouldnt be a valid defense.

Why are we even playing this "game" with people can just use non-game mechanics to get out of trouble in game.




grrrrr

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you don't have enough DPS to kill a robot that doesn't do anything for 2 minutes then I think it deserves to survive. Or do I get something wrong here?

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

DEV Zoom wrote:

Huh? The fix I was talking about was in the 11-05 patch:

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2013-11-05

* Fix: Player robots remained on the terrain indefinitely if they got locked after an instant logout.

I wouldn't call that "on a whim". Did you really need more than a month to notice this change?


Because it takes time to find and exsploit some mechanics.    Its not some ting u do evry day for funn its done because u are in trubble evry now and then....

32 Reply by Rage Blackout (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-18 01:02:59)

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Re: instant logg out

We have been able to prevent people from PvP logging for three years.

Logging out isnt a valid defense.

Now, you just change it.

and yes, on whim.




the problem you were supposed to solve was a bug where a dude would stay on the field for trivial reasons, not when the are engaged in pvp or get caught by lights.

Now, you just gave everyone a get out of jail free card -




Now, mining ops just need to instant log at the sign of trouble.

Now, when a light tackles catchs a heavy, he just instant logs so the dps cant get to him fast enough

Now. a lithus can move anything anywhere and at the first sign of trouble, can instant log

Now, if a fleet of guys are fighting and losing, they can all stop and Instant log and half of them get away free.


Our opponents are already abusing this.   pvp logging /


Zoom this is serious, it has been one way for three years and you just completely changed it.


now we are playing "intant log online"










DEV Zoom wrote:

Huh? The fix I was talking about was in the 11-05 patch:

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2013-11-05

* Fix: Player robots remained on the terrain indefinitely if they got locked after an instant logout.

I wouldn't call that "on a whim". Did you really need more than a month to notice this change?

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

Rage Blackout wrote:

If a bot is caught and he doesnt have other PvP bots with him to defend themselves, Logging Out shouldnt be a valid defense.

That's the thing, it's not defense, it's called fleeing.

But I can talk to the guys and see if we can manage to stop all modules if you instalog with an active pvp flag.

34 Reply by Rage Blackout (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-18 01:02:44)

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Re: instant logg out

People didnt notice you can PvP log because you couldnt for three years and now you can and people figured it out.


So, now instead of playing the game, people are just Instant logging.


We watched Burial do this three times today. He is always abusing these types of things.










DEV Zoom wrote:

Huh? The fix I was talking about was in the 11-05 patch:

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2013-11-05

* Fix: Player robots remained on the terrain indefinitely if they got locked after an instant logout.

I wouldn't call that "on a whim". Did you really need more than a month to notice this change?

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

Thanks.  I am sorry my tone is blunt, but it is frustrating when important rules are constantly altered.

Yes, the mods turning off would be reasonable and solve it.


Thank you



DEV Zoom wrote:
Rage Blackout wrote:

If a bot is caught and he doesnt have other PvP bots with him to defend themselves, Logging Out shouldnt be a valid defense.

That's the thing, it's not defense, it's called fleeing.

But I can talk to the guys and see if we can manage to stop all modules if you instalog with an active pvp flag.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

DEV Zoom wrote:

All that having said, the logout timer is open for discussion, but "indefinite" is not an option. Needless to say, a longer timer would be a b*tch if it's you who has to suddenly leave for any reason irl.


I would make it 10 minutes in that case.

Sometimes it takes more than 5 or 10 minutes just to get a combat mech deep into an island.

Secondly, I have a whole host of "hard to kill" bots that with the current mechanic, will be "much harder to kill" or "impossible to kill".  I will use these bots in situations where the risk would be high, but because I know the chances of them getting broken before I log (2 quick minutes) the risk is now greatly mitigated.

There are so many ways I can use this to my advantage.
-Tyrannos Mk2
-Castel Mk2
-Lithus Mk2
-Riveler Mk2
-scouting from hard to get places (but close to enemy).

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC
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Re: instant logg out

i'm calling this now, Zoom is just trolling. He cant possibly think logofski is fleeing.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: instant logg out

Not to mention, EPI mining will be so very safe.

Rivelers mining in beta
Remote location
A couple eyes
See enemy
Insta-2-minute-log

By the time you get mechs there to even scratch the rivelers, they are logged out with 5 to 15 minutes to spare depending on loc in island.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

39 Reply by Rage Blackout (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-18 01:13:19)

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Re: instant logg out

Using a game mechanic "logoff" to survive in game PVP engagement is not valid in any way shape or form.

People put their bots at risk in Beta and Gamma and if you get caught and you dont have people with you, you get destroyed.

Never in sandbox gaming is logging off be the solution to anything other then you having to do RL things to do.


DEV Zoom wrote:
Rage Blackout wrote:

If a bot is caught and he doesnt have other PvP bots with him to defend themselves, Logging Out shouldnt be a valid defense.

That's the thing, it's not defense, it's called fleeing.

But I can talk to the guys and see if we can manage to stop all modules if you instalog with an active pvp flag.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

I'd say you need to test it more. I don't want to explain how mechanics work to my enemies but you got big part of it wrong.

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Re: instant logg out

DEV Zoom wrote:
Rage Blackout wrote:

If a bot is caught and he doesnt have other PvP bots with him to defend themselves, Logging Out shouldnt be a valid defense.

That's the thing, it's not defense, it's called fleeing.

But I can talk to the guys and see if we can manage to stop all modules if you instalog with an active pvp flag.


Seriusly? fleeing?  thats when some one runs back to alpha.  not loging off standing still.

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Re: instant logg out

Something still doesn't add up here.

You see, that fix I mentioned was for the following bug (and it WAS a bug, as in definitely not intended):
- Your safe logout timer gets interrupted when you get locked by someone else, that's pretty clear.
- However, a timer is also running for you when you instalog (instant logout or close the client), which tells the server when to remove your robot from the terrain.
- Locking a robot that was in this removal timer period would also cancel the removal timer, so with time, the islands would have been full with zombie robots standing around.

Nothing else was changed other than fixing this, nothing connected to aggressing or whatever.

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Re: instant logg out

You are now 100% full of crap and nothing you say at this point is valid to me.  Congratulations.

You literraly instanted your way out of dying today at least two times.

gg

Burial wrote:

I'd say you need to test it more. I don't want to explain how mechanics work to my enemies but you got big part of it wrong.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

if i have somebody demobed they should not be able to just log out of that situation. I cant tell you the amount of situations this would be ***

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

45 Reply by Rage Blackout (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-18 01:22:00)

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Re: instant logg out

Ok, up until now, I could demob a bot on the field and he would not vanish from logging.  I could also lock and unlock him and he would not vanish from the field.  Also I could be shooting him and he would not vanish.

The change you put in stopped the above from working when a person pressed instant log.  His bot will be off the field in two minutes no matter what is going on.  I can shoot him, demob him, and lock and unlock him and he still is gone.  That is what the fix you put in altered.

Now, in any situation, if a player instant logs, he is off the field in two minutes.

This means a person with an insaine sheild or other awesome tank gets away free unless you have big dps and neuts right there at that time.

Typically, a person gets tackled by fast tackle while big dps catches up, but what happens now is that person can instant and get off the field.



So, to summarize, Safe logging you can still break the timer with pvp action, but Instant loggings timer does not break no matter what you do to the opponent.



DEV Zoom wrote:

Something still doesn't add up here.

You see, that fix I mentioned was for the following bug (and it WAS a bug, as in definitely not intended):
- Your safe logout timer gets interrupted when you get locked by someone else, that's pretty clear.
- However, a timer is also running for you when you instalog (instant logout or close the client), which tells the server when to remove your robot from the terrain.
- Locking a robot that was in this removal timer period would also cancel the removal timer, so with time, the islands would have been full with zombie robots standing around.

Nothing else was changed other than fixing this, nothing connected to aggressing or whatever.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
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Re: instant logg out

Jita wrote:

if i have somebody demobed they should not be able to just log out of that situation. I cant tell you the amount of situations this would be ***

So if you keep an offline robot demobbed for 5 hours then it would stay there for 5 hours? That's a no go, sorry.

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Re: instant logg out

Rage Blackout wrote:

Ok, up until now, I could demob a bot on the field and he would not vanish from logging.  I could also lock and unlock him and he would not vanish from the field.  Also I could be shooting him and he would not vanish.

The change you put in stopped the above from working when a person pressed instant log.  His bot will be off the field in two minutes no matter what is going on.  I can shoot him, demob him, and lock and unlock him and he still is gone.  That is what the fix you put in altered.

Now, in any situation, if a player instant logs, he is off the field in two minutes.

This means a person with an insaine sheild or other awesome tank gets away free unless you have big dps and neuts right there at that time.

Typically, a person gets tackled by fast tackle while big dps catches up, but what happens now is that person can instant and get off the field.



DEV Zoom wrote:

Something still doesn't add up here.

You see, that fix I mentioned was for the following bug (and it WAS a bug, as in definitely not intended):
- Your safe logout timer gets interrupted when you get locked by someone else, that's pretty clear.
- However, a timer is also running for you when you instalog (instant logout or close the client), which tells the server when to remove your robot from the terrain.
- Locking a robot that was in this removal timer period would also cancel the removal timer, so with time, the islands would have been full with zombie robots standing around.

Nothing else was changed other than fixing this, nothing connected to aggressing or whatever.

doesn't even need that if you catch a guy off station with some ewar and tackle and your bringing in some dps you better be able to get there and kill him in two minutes .. which is ***

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: instant logg out

Dev Zoom, that is an extreme example.  We rarely kept someone hostage and I agree in that case its silly.

In real situations, we just kill the person combat logging and move on.


DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

if i have somebody demobed they should not be able to just log out of that situation. I cant tell you the amount of situations this would be ***

So if you keep an offline robot demobbed for 5 hours then it would stay there for 5 hours? That's a no go, sorry.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

49 Reply by TerraBit (edited by TerraBit 2013-12-18 01:24:38)

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Re: instant logg out

DEV Zoom wrote:

Something still doesn't add up here.

You see, that fix I mentioned was for the following bug (and it WAS a bug, as in definitely not intended):
- Your safe logout timer gets interrupted when you get locked by someone else, that's pretty clear.
- However, a timer is also running for you when you instalog (instant logout or close the client), which tells the server when to remove your robot from the terrain.
- Locking a robot that was in this removal timer period would also cancel the removal timer, so with time, the islands would have been full with zombie robots standing around.

Nothing else was changed other than fixing this, nothing connected to aggressing or whatever.

We just tested lock and unlock, and lock again 13 times during the time the player was offline  guess what the player still disapered from the ground whit in 2mins

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Re: instant logg out

We should do something against logoff traps too. Don't you think those are broken too? It's like what you are talking here only reversed. You keep your forces off the field and then log them in at convenient times.