1 (edited by Gunner 2013-07-01 05:51:09)

Topic: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Just a thought:

95% of players are PVE style, which can be tough in a sandbox PvP game.

Just imagine, though, if this game were released in a few months to Steam and there was a relatively secure peaceful group that controlled most of Beta/Gamma.

The result of this would be, possibly, people subbing and staying subbed as they explore all the content on all three island types without getting their faces smashed in repeatedly.

The 5% or less of true PvPers would cry about it, but they could hold little tourneys or something.

10,000 active happy players?


could happen


see you guys at greenlight -

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

thats been kind of the way it always was, out of 10 people recruited only maybe 3 would want to pvp actively. some would pvp that normally don't like to when wanting to protect there base but thats about it. So I don't see this ratio changing much even with steam release, just the nature of peoples play style that is in question. Plus you just don't know what your going to get anyway so there is no reason to speculate.

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Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Gunner wrote:

Just a thought:

Just imagine, though, if this game were released in a few months to Steam and there was a relatively secure peaceful group that controlled most of Beta/Gamma.

The result of this would be, possibly, people subbing and staying subbed as they explore all the content on all three island types without getting their faces smashed in repeatedly.


could happen


see you guys at greenlight -

I would argue that the ground work for this is being laid and has been for several months. There is purpose and reason for allowing past hostile corps access to all of the beta terminals. This game is too small to be locking people out of access to upper level content that cant be found on alpha.

Also who is this new Gunner (Gi&*#D)? maybe? big_smile

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

4 (edited by Gunner 2013-07-01 05:56:02)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Well, I hope there will be all kinds of dudes cruising around all over the place   big_smile

My opinion is this free Clone Jumping needs to be looked at in a serious no bullshit manner though.




I'll give the new Steam people a couple weeks to get settled in, then its game time.

Anyone else who wants to take a break from the circle jerk is welcome to come shoot the place up with me  tongue

5 (edited by Hunter 2013-07-01 13:32:35)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

It makes me laugh every time I imagine how deep will suck the newcomers from "Steam". This is because of total difference in policies of "Steam" and "Perpetuum-Online".
"Steam" - 1 person = 1 account;
"Perpetuum" - 1 account = suck.
As a result, players who have come from "Steam", will have to forget about "Steam". This means that "Perpetuum" deceive "Steam".

...And yes. DeV's not commented this.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Hunter, I laugh every time I look at perp-kill.net.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
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Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Hunter: personally I would be quite happy if we could go Steam exclusive and forget about this multiaccounting nonsense.

8 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-01 16:37:07)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

DEV Zoom wrote:

Hunter: personally I would be quite happy if we could go Steam exclusive and forget about this multiaccounting nonsense.

That would be a BIG mistake, multi accounting != P2W.

Even with multiple accounts the work needs to be done to gain any advantage. Less options are bad. By definition P2W is exchanging ingame Dev 'spawned' item/NIC for RL cash.

Conclusion: The is nothing stopping a player to attain the same level of competitiveness with one account and not buying ICE, surely it helps, but nothing game breaking like buying t4+ directly from Devs with $$.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

DEV Zoom wrote:

Hunter: personally I would be quite happy if we could go Steam exclusive and forget about this multiaccounting nonsense.

Nonsense on the grounds of what? Something that's that inherent to the sandbox (like Celebro said, it's not eliminating any workload), I would say it's a bit of an statement to express the desire to eliminate it completely. Even CCP designed their Steam-integration with multiaccounting in mind (Single Sign On), seeing that multiaccounting is a good thing, even in their fully populated sandbox that does have that fully functioning economy, essentially eliminating the need for multiaccounting.

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Doek: yes, the whole "nonsense" part comes from us making an MMO where individual accounts could work together, but when this happens to be the same man working together with him/herself, people tend to complain and call us out that the game is designed for multiaccounting. Well, DUH.

11 (edited by Burial 2013-07-01 17:40:08)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

One of the simpler fix would be to nerf following. I know removing it totally from the game would cause "some" distress, but for example, make it so that following generates more interference on PVP islands(by more I mean enough to matter).

I know it really basically doesn't fix the issue other than nerf follow-bot PVP but I think majority of the uproar is related to PVP anyways.

12 (edited by Hunter 2013-07-01 17:27:27)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Hunter wrote:

The game became pay to win type long time ago. This is annoying. I ask to stop this obvious disbalance.
There are need to fix follow bots. It should be useless in PvP.
Q: How to fix?
A: Switch off auto cycles of offencive/support eqipment when PvP flag is active (weapons, jammers, neuts, remote repairers, etc).

There could be problems with RSA. But actually not. Just need increase effect time (x4) and decrease cycle timers (twice).

Just remove autocycles in PvP mode.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

13 (edited by Heliaso 2013-07-01 17:55:14)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

I have a solution for steam player, they can play pelsital , no accumulator issues, no LOS, etc , perfect for solo account.

Let Nuimqol/Telodica players play with their OBLIGATORY Remote energy bot to be-cap stable.

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Burial wrote:

One of the simpler fix would be to nerf following. I know removing it totally from the game would cause "some" distress, but for example, make it so that following generates more interference on PVP islands(by more I mean enough to matter).

I know it really basically doesn't fix the issue other than nerf follow-bot PVP but I think majority of the uproar is related to PVP anyways.


+1 Remove approach command. Nerf,  nexus modules if needed.

Who is ever going to specialize as a support role solo? A hard limit with 1 player per account will not only will remove revenue for the game, for those who wish to multi-box, it will just leave players with less options to explore.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

DEV Zoom wrote:

Doek: yes, the whole "nonsense" part comes from us making an MMO where individual accounts could work together, but when this happens to be the same man working together with him/herself, people tend to complain and call us out that the game is designed for multiaccounting. Well, DUH.



You have designed a game for accounts to work together, which also makes multi boxing popular. 5 Accounts make up like 10% of the account active atm. When or if, we have a  much larger population 5 accounts is not going to make much of a difference.

RIP PERPETUUM

16 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-07-01 20:31:52)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

The problem is this:  I want to do large scale mass production, so I need large scale mining to maintain my production requirements.  So long as I can only do large scale production with multiple accounts, I will always use multiple accounts.  The amount of materials needed for large scale production are not attainable or feasible with 1 miner.

Second problem.  The amount of EP required to be either a miner or producer is exceedingly high.  The solution?  Use multiple accounts.  5 accounts = 5 x EP growth.  I am sorry to tell you this, but from the ground up, this game was designed for players to have multiple accounts.  You might have done it accidentally, but none the less, your systems are designed to have multiple accounts run by a single user.

From a business standpoint, why the hell do you even care?  If a user wants to give you 50$ a month instead of $10 why in Zombie Jesus's name would you want to change that?

17 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-01 21:29:27)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Martha Stuart wrote:

The problem is this:  +stuff

Why is it a problem? Want to do large scale production dish out $50 a month. Don't want to spend so much money then join a corp of players that does mass scale production together. Can't handle that, you can still do it 5 times slower. At the end of the day more accounts just buys you time to do stuff and learn different skills faster, but not the same skills ofc.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

DEV Zoom wrote:

Hunter: personally I would be quite happy if we could go Steam exclusive and forget about this multiaccounting nonsense.

@Celebro

I don't see it as a problem.  I meant that in response to Zooms post, the problem is that the system has built in advantages to people you run multiple accounts.  So unless you fundamentally shift the mechanics it will always be beneficial to run more than 1 account.  I love my accounts and can't even remember what it was like to run with 1 account, nor would I ever want too.

19 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-07-01 22:13:05)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

the problem we face is the following: some (not all) player want to experience more then just one or two fields of this game.

Single account
if you do this on a single account you are a jack of many trades but you cant compete in any of these field. you basicly will have a broken char. you can not realy earn good money anywere because you are nowhere good. and power in thse games come from specilization.
or you have to wait 5 more years. by paying but not playing. because playing with such a char will not realy be fun.

Multi accounting
this will allow to to experience the things that you would not be able to do on a single account. you can do multible specializations and you can experience all these parts. of cource this also involves more money which (as ever) brings the bad "pay to win" wizard onto the field. but honestly thats the way this damn world works. you pay more money and you get more. you can pay 4€ for a beer or 8€ for two. now the guy who can only afford (or wants to afford) to pay for one cries that the other guy has two and sais that this is not fair...

Multi boxing
this is a total different thing as multi accounting. yes you can argue that this is a bad thing and all the combat chars with their follow alts is not how its ment to be. also the solo mining fleets ... ...
but how you want to prevent it? you want to block having multibe games running at the same time? well this makes it even more p2w because now the guy how can afford multible PCs will still do it. so better for the rich but worse for the ppl in between. just more injustice.
or oyu want to block multible games from the same ip: well nice idea but what if two ppl in the same house (for example brothers living under the same roof) want to play this game over the same router. now you have to tell them that they cant. but in the end it will be not a real issiue. you can still proxy one or more accounts and it will still be possible. just a bit more work and just higher p2w levels.

so what can you do to prevent it. honestly not much. not much. you can make it harder, ppl will still do it, and you will have no real options to prevent it. not on a usefull lvl.

this is a sandbox. one of the very few. and i think multi accounting and multi boxing will always happen. you can make multi boxing a bit harder by things like removing auto follow... but still ppl with more money will find other ways. just look at the programs avalible in eve.

and as said: it provides better income for the devs. so why should they not allow it. in the end they would like to earn money with this and make a living and a profit from it. this might be fun, but its also buisiness.

20 (edited by Burial 2013-07-01 22:14:34)

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Make it less worth it and people will do it a lot less.

- Remote equipment a lot weaker than local equipment(amps etc)
- Make heavies more cap stable.

I honestly would often run without follow if my Mesmer could even shoot guns continuously without running out of accumulator.

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

DEV Zoom wrote:

Doek: yes, the whole "nonsense" part comes from us making an MMO where individual accounts could work together, but when this happens to be the same man working together with him/herself, people tend to complain and call us out that the game is designed for multiaccounting. Well, DUH.

Do I take it from this that your only real objection to multi accounting is that people complain about it?

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

I think Martha nailed it. The EP requirements for a solo account to be multi use are simply too high. If all extensions cost a 1/3 of their current costs I could certainly make a multi use well skilled player. But even a million skill points, and 2 years time invested, is not enough to max out a Heavy Pilot.

As far as making other bots self sufficient, bots need weaknesses. I have played my Heavy Mes solo and it's good enough for most situations and can be a repping *** if fit properly.  Not saying I'm the authority on Mesmers, just saying they can do ok solo.

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Martha Stuart wrote:

The problem is this:  I want to do large scale mass production, so I need large scale mining to maintain my production requirements.  So long as I can only do large scale production with multiple accounts, I will always use multiple accounts.  The amount of materials needed for large scale production are not attainable or feasible with 1 miner.

Second problem.  The amount of EP required to be either a miner or producer is exceedingly high.  The solution?  Use multiple accounts.  5 accounts = 5 x EP growth.  I am sorry to tell you this, but from the ground up, this game was designed for players to have multiple accounts.  You might have done it accidentally, but none the less, your systems are designed to have multiple accounts run by a single user.

From a business standpoint, why the hell do you even care?  If a user wants to give you 50$ a month instead of $10 why in Zombie Jesus's name would you want to change that?

+1.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

If you would break "following" then add in what Ludlow was thinking (http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -teleport/ )
you might revolutionize how this game is played.

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Re: Super Blue Polka Dot Alliance - greenlight ace-in-the-hole

Ah yeah, I was talking about multiboxing in my posts, sorry for the confusion and thanks Zortarg for reminding me smile
And yes it's near impossible to fight it, since we don't want to compromise normal gameplay experience while doing so.