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Topic: Self-Repair Boost

wow, was just shocked. even so this gets mentioned every now and then in posts (self-)repair doesn't have its own topic! Though there is one topic that hold nearly all necessary basic facts here.

As a matter of fact, if you have to choose between shields and repair you will always take the first one. With this topic I want to collect and discuss ideas to balance this out.

Problems of repair vs. shield:
fitting costs of either are to high to equip both at the same time, high accu usage worsens this
repair:
you need about 3 times more modules to be efficient
high accu usage, bad cycle times

Annihilator wrote:

shield HP = accumulator * shieldefficieny
shield HP recharge with accumulator 1:1, cycletime 0.03s
if you increase your buffer hitpoints by adding an aux accumulator, you dont change the time until 100%

armor HP = armor * resist
armor HP regeneration = repair module that converts AP into HP with a very bad cycletime, and bad ratio.
if you increase your buffer hitpoints by adding armor plates, you also incrase the time and AP you need to get back to 100%.

shield:
once accu is down, you can't repair yourself
before that no scratch on your bots, no repair costs in terminal, no hassle

BUT shield is okay like it is, I don't want to discuss any changes about shields here! So what to do about armor repair?

My suggestions would be the following. Please discuss and tell me your ideas.

  • Auto-Repair: give each botclass a specified repair over time without the need of modules. Why? Example: One drone is able to kill any bot now if that bot is standing passivley there, even a HM

  • Emergency Repair: either by a new module or as ammo for injectors (idea from beta by Annihilator). Those shouldn't consume any accu at all. (idea for modules here)

  • PHM
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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Shield plus syntec repper.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

There's a lot of tradeoffs between the two, I'd say there's a good balance.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Maybe organic-based armor plate instead which will slowly regen your hp.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

all bots should have a natural out-of-combat repair that equals a syn-crap small repper. affected by all extensions and bonuses.

I dont see a single reason why it should not be.

also, i still dont see a valid reason why a medium repair module
-consumes ~80% more AP/HP, while the module has
- 400% higher reactor and 
- 42% higher CPU fitting requirement, and
- 300% more mass
then the small repair.

Aside from that about shields, my major argument will stay, that shields should be disconnected from accumulator and get a seperated buffer. MUCH easier to balance and energy injector could be reverted to their original inteded role and their size reduced again...

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Anni imagine a large fleet battle, you get player x to 10% health he repairs a little but he gets hit by a missile volley he's at  1% he runs to the back of the pack hes running a shield with no repairer so he is basically out of the fight which is good.  If you implement this all he would have to do is hang at  the back of the pack till (arbitrary number) minutes go by and then he's back to the front of the  group again.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

I think this would be good if it was a module based system where the module would slowly repairs your armor just like a recharger recharges you accumulator.
^ this I could get behind but just adding auto armor repair overtime to all robots is not going to be good for the game

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

If only there was a module you could fit to repair others who don't have a repair module on them...

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Ville wrote:

Shield plus syntec repper.

QFT

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

I would go for a repper with a slow passive and good active repairs.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Norrdec wrote:

I would go for a repper with a slow passive and good active repairs.

that would be a compromise solution, but not a bit helping.

lets sum up - everyone against this, is ok with:

- solo-roaming has no place in perp
- solo-pve has no place in perp
- shields are pvp only equip, and in pve only a choice for vets in heavy mechs
- every game mechanic should be only availiable with modules, so logically,
+the passive resist bonus on yellow bots should not work without fitting at least an universal armor plate,
+ the mining bonuses of mining bots should only boost industrial tunings
+ the masking bonus of ewar bots should only be applied to masking modules, not the bot itself
+ recharge bonus of pelistal bots should not be applied without a recharger fitted
+ locktime bonus of pelsital bost should not be applied without a sensor amp fitted.

guys, your to hardcore with your "bind everything to a module". especially SELF REPAIR or Heal is a basic component in every RPG. having it only avialiable by fitting a certain module is more or less a joke....

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Annihilator wrote:
Norrdec wrote:

I would go for a repper with a slow passive and good active repairs.

that would be a compromise solution, but not a bit helping.

lets sum up - everyone against this, is ok with:

- solo-roaming has no place in perp
- solo-pve has no place in perp
- shields are pvp only equip, and in pve only a choice for vets in heavy mechs
- every game mechanic should be only availiable with modules, so logically,
+the passive resist bonus on yellow bots should not work without fitting at least an universal armor plate,
+ the mining bonuses of mining bots should only boost industrial tunings
+ the masking bonus of ewar bots should only be applied to masking modules, not the bot itself
+ recharge bonus of pelistal bots should not be applied without a recharger fitted
+ locktime bonus of pelsital bost should not be applied without a sensor amp fitted.

guys, your to hardcore with your "bind everything to a module". especially SELF REPAIR or Heal is a basic component in every RPG. having it only avialiable by fitting a certain module is more or less a joke....

We don't need all this stuff. All we need is to return Armor Repairer Tunings and ERP back. That's all.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Armor and shields basicly are the same thing in the end, small threshold that is between you and waking up in a terminal. As you can't have a self regening shield, without shield module, I don't see a self-repair going on without a repair module.

I like symmetry.

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14 Reply by Arjha Shanoo (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-08-19 16:27:03)

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Ville wrote:

Anni imagine a large fleet battle, you get player x to 10% health he repairs a little but he gets hit by a missile volley he's at  1% he runs to the back of the pack hes running a shield with no repairer so he is basically out of the fight which is good.  If you implement this all he would have to do is hang at  the back of the pack till (arbitrary number) minutes go by and then he's back to the front of the  group again.

I do like the idea of being able to fully use the lucky chance you got through surviving that enables to engage into the war again. A groupplay that allows protecting your friends without the need of RR sounds good to me.
You may say it can become an endless battle - but we do not have tracking anymore: you still can hit robots that hide behind others. And if you want to get those last few HPs of him down then just don't allow him to retreat, talk more to your groupmates, get them shoot at him too, use neuts, demobs ecm and so on on him.
A possible solution to balance repair module would for example be that they may have to heat up before use (example: shown by red pulses with increasing speed coming from you), so that an ECM can disrupt that emergency repair if you aren't able to collect enough damage together with your teammates.
My god, all in all in the worst case the PvP-fight then tells you to engage even more and gives you an even richer experience.

@ Nordecc: a passive repair (ie no accu usage) on armor rep would be another solution to auto rep, so I like it. At least for all those that just complain about the "no-module" part they should be happy with it. (No one ever said it HAS to be solved without a module). Somewhere in previous discussion I already read the idea of giving armor plates a passive repair.

Edit: @ Critical SnipeR: petitions for diminuishing returns for all kind of tunings are still open, aren't they?

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

So... when is an ictus going to drain someone's armor, like they do shields?

  • CIR
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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Making this accu based it pointless imo. The way I see it, it should be slower than accu recharge while it's empty. Nowhere near able to tank anything, but allowing to extend the time a bot can be useful during a fight.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Why make all these changes for something so simple, lm with Critical Sniper in this.  No need to make armor repair a science. Either you click repair or you dont. Either you equip a repper or not. Keep it simple/stupid.  Besides, the Devs need to focus on their advertisement, a lot more important than fiddling with this theory crafting. Im sure the Devs are about to explode from all the stuff they need to do already.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

that workload explosion is the reason that topics like this one haven't reached a conclusion since beta-phase. Just to remind you, most of the currently discussed changes were requested long times ago already.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

undo of the knee-jerk and unnecessary repair nerf would be another band-aid fix, comming far to late.

the current blue MK2 ERP tank fits would love it...

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Arjha Shanoo wrote:
Ville wrote:

Anni imagine a large fleet battle, you get player x to 10% health he repairs a little but he gets hit by a missile volley he's at  1% he runs to the back of the pack hes running a shield with no repairer so he is basically out of the fight which is good.  If you implement this all he would have to do is hang at  the back of the pack till (arbitrary number) minutes go by and then he's back to the front of the  group again.

I do like the idea of being able to fully use the lucky chance you got through surviving that enables to engage into the war again. A groupplay that allows protecting your friends without the need of RR sounds good to me.
You may say it can become an endless battle - but we do not have tracking anymore: you still can hit robots that hide behind others. And if you want to get those last few HPs of him down then just don't allow him to retreat, talk more to your groupmates, get them shoot at him too, use neuts, demobs ecm and so on on him.
A possible solution to balance repair module would for example be that they may have to heat up before use (example: shown by red pulses with increasing speed coming from you), so that an ECM can disrupt that emergency repair if you aren't able to collect enough damage together with your teammates.
My god, all in all in the worst case the PvP-fight then tells you to engage even more and gives you an even richer experience.

@ Nordecc: a passive repair (ie no accu usage) on armor rep would be another solution to auto rep, so I like it. At least for all those that just complain about the "no-module" part they should be happy with it. (No one ever said it HAS to be solved without a module). Somewhere in previous discussion I already read the idea of giving armor plates a passive repair.

Edit: @ Critical SnipeR: petitions for diminuishing returns for all kind of tunings are still open, aren't they?

Really?  I mean really?  So you think noone on the server uses FCs in combat?  Noone calls primaries or secondarys?  We need to just be better at it?  Have you ever pvped before?  Adding self repairs(auto) will just turn into endless battles of who brought more Ammo.  Trust me on this.

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

It will always end up being who owns the terrain.  If I auto repaired, I would never run a repper just a shield and a recharger.

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22 Reply by Arjha Shanoo (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-08-20 19:30:28)

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Ville wrote:

It will always end up being who owns the terrain.  If I auto repaired, I would never run a repper just a shield and a recharger.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

a passive repair (ie no accu usage) on armor rep would be another solution to auto rep, so I like it. At least for all those that just complain about the "no-module" part they should be happy with it. (No one ever said it HAS to be solved without a module

so you think its a pure overkill to have a bit more repping chances at mass-pvp even if emergency rep or auto rep is bound to modules? wouldn't say so. the rest is balancing pure. Additionally, if you fear a passive rep might cancel repmodules out, you dont have to put both ideas into action; if only one of the two, auto rep or an emergency rep, gets in somehow (of course ith balance in mind) i would already be more than satisfied.
Beside pvp, back to my op: is it alright that one mere drone can kill an unshielded passive HM?

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

...... I just face palmed IRL....

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

Let me explain the linear progression of this module.

Module introduced

Russian community tests module and designs insane tanking bot.

Devs wait a month for Russian Community to specialize in  this fit then nerf it.

Russians redesign fit optimize for great tank.

A surge of new players join perpetuum and whine endlessly on forums that their 5 light bots can not kill heavy mech.

The Devs nerf the module again to make it practically worthless.

Hunter writes new proverb and poems about incompetent Hungarians.

Russian community hunts whiney new players to the brink of destruction and kills everything with fire.

Whiney new players down to just a handful go join  Nebs.

Do you really want this to happen?

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Re: Self-Repair Boost

wouldn't this happen with anything thats new? whether its new bots new modules, islands or game features it's always like this, but even with knowing this, new content is always asked for.