Topic: Why is end game all in shields?!

The problem is not in the bots that get nerfed and they think that doing that is going to get pvp balanced and we're all happy.  If theyre going to change anything warn others and avoid careless mistakes.  Like they did with the Troiar MK2.  The problem isnt in the bot, the problem is in the SHIELD.  How do you invent tanking without a specific resistance.  How about you  stop messing with the bots and start fixing the true problem, the shield.  You have to do the same as armor and put specific hardeners  or something like that. Because if this continues like this the armor tanking is going to disappear and we're all going to be shield tanking because defininitely for less accu, less modules I tank 3 or 4 more times than any amor tank.


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Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

I like how this comes from RG whom are part of the alliance who utilised shields the most.
Both before this event and during it.

Shields are impressive when used correctly but in large fights can be over-powered. The issue is that for each 2 people using shields you need about a 4 man team to take them down. Meaning 25 people with this shield setup is basically unstoppable. I hope the issue with micro-managing shields can be resolved to make them good tanks but not the best.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Shields are not overpowered, Armor tanking is just under powered.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

4 (edited by Goffer 2011-12-05 09:03:42)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

I think shield itself is not the problem. The possibilities you have with shield are the problem.

And BTW Alexander you should know that your old corp was the first to introduce large fleet of shielded Gropho in Battles long time ago. Seems you showed Novastrov how to do this.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Sundial wrote:

Shields are not overpowered, Armor tanking is just under powered.

Hallaaa

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Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

They need to reintroduce the armor tanking again, right now it frankly stinks !

7 (edited by Purgatory 2011-12-05 11:17:43)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Twiz wrote:

They need to reintroduce the armor tanking again, right now it frankly stinks !

Tell that to the kain who tanked 2 highly ep invested gropho MK 2's firing compacts, supported by T4 critical hit/assault nexus modules. The kain had no support and tanked indefinetely.

And I do agree shields need to change, how about we take away the micromanaging aspect and do something different with them?  I would like to see their overall ability to absorb damage nerfed but allow the shield user to use weapons while the shield is active.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Purge - i wonder which type of compacts you shot at the kain, after you said yesterday you didn't use smites. The Kain was eventually ERP fitted.

Active Armor tanking works with only one faction: blue, because they have repair bonus
Shield tanking works only with one faction: green, because they got shield or recharge bonus
Resist tanking works only with one faction: yellow, because they got the bonus for it.

btw, did you notice how much micromanagement the Chaos team had to do? They accidentally transfered energy to Lemon a few times, they also had not much weapons fitted for some reasons...

There was probably another deciding factor to: Those Chaos agents are 100% specialized in that setup, since preorder. Neither Lemons nor Mortes team had that advantage, since their equipment-layout was a "reaction" and depended on availiable agents.


The only change i would make to shield in short terms without changing any game mechanic: let us see the shield integrity (accumulator) if someone fields a shield and fix the combat log entry ASAP.

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Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Lemon wrote:
Sundial wrote:

Shields are not overpowered, Armor tanking is just under powered.

Hallaaa

You did DAMN good against them. Issue being you need another Ictus and not a Vaga.

Well done. I really hoped you'd win honestly. sad

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Annihilator wrote:

Active Armor tanking works with only one faction: blue, because they have repair bonus

Blue is the kinda half *** faction tanking wise.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

I would say in a lot of cases of imbalance, the problem is the way bonuses stack up in certain focused builds. In my opinion, stacking penalties would be something worth looking at. In many cases, nerfing the module is a bad option, because you end up with something that's only worth using if you have 3 of them fitted, or not even worth using at all. Stacking penalties allow for modules to be powerful individually without having to worry so much about fitting multiples being overpowered. There are a lot of games out there that use a stacking penalty / soft cap to deal with exactly these kinds of problems, and in my experience they seem to work reasonably well.

12 (edited by GLiMPSE 2011-12-05 14:32:19)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Alexander wrote:

I like how this comes from RG whom are part of the alliance who utilised shields the most.
Both before this event and during it.

Shields are impressive when used correctly but in large fights can be over-powered. The issue is that for each 2 people using shields you need about a 4 man team to take them down. Meaning 25 people with this shield setup is basically unstoppable. I hope the issue with micro-managing shields can be resolved to make them good tanks but not the best.

This is incorrect, 25 people shield tanked would just need enough people on the other side to burn one of them down quickly and that isn't very hard to do after the shield hardener nerf. The reason the tyranno's were so effective was because of their recharge and the inability to field enough dps to break that recharge and alpha quick enough.

8 gropho's would 2 volley that tyrannos, 4 mesmers would likely 1 1/2 volley them.

Doesn't matter if you have 25 of them, 30 or 50 you can kite and pop all day without issue once you have the dps to break them. This setup would be worthless in most large scale fights as it's too slow and has very small range.

13 (edited by Estamel Tharch0n 2011-12-05 14:36:51)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

GLiMPSE wrote:
Alexander wrote:

I like how this comes from RG whom are part of the alliance who utilised shields the most.
Both before this event and during it.

Shields are impressive when used correctly but in large fights can be over-powered. The issue is that for each 2 people using shields you need about a 4 man team to take them down. Meaning 25 people with this shield setup is basically unstoppable. I hope the issue with micro-managing shields can be resolved to make them good tanks but not the best.

This is incorrect, 25 people shield tanked would just need enough people on the other side to burn one of them down quickly and that isn't very hard to do after the shield hardener nerf. The reason the tyranno's were so effective was because of their recharge and the inability to field enough dps to break that recharge and alpha quick enough.

8 gropho's would 2 volley that tyrannos, 4 mesmers would likely 1 1/2 volley them.

Doesn't matter if you have 25 of them, 30 or 50 you can kite and pop all day without issue once you have the dps to break them. This setup would be worthless in most large scale fights as it's too slow and has very small range.

I think ur underestimating the Gropho`s dps  also fited whit neuts shuld probbably kill a tyrannoses Acum in larger groups

14 (edited by Alexander 2011-12-05 14:46:47)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

The fact is you need a larger group to take down shields. Cost of 8 Grophos vs 4 Tyrannos.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Alexander wrote:

The fact is you need a larger group to take down shields. Cost of 8 Grophos vs 4 Tyrannos.

And you would need a larger group to take down 3 tank fit artemis's w/ rr support... what's your point?

The difference between these two scenario's is the artemis's can return fire easily..... lol..

To kill tanked setups... you typically need more bots then they have... hence the point of tanking?!

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

the problem is not the shield. the problem is the cycle and the fast reactivation.

just give the shield a 10 sec timer to reactivate independent from the cycle and things like this will never happen again.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

i suggest just nerf erp... it should help.

18 (edited by Syndic 2011-12-05 16:41:20)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

I agree with hunter, erp definitely needs nerf. lol

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19 (edited by Sundial 2011-12-05 17:07:25)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Are we seriously having this conversation?

Alexander, the point of tanking is to do just that... tank. You sacrifice DPS, Range, and sometimes alot of speed to pull off the higher end shield tanks.

Also a few random facts:

1. Shield tanking is NO WHERE near what it used to be in terms of power after the shield hardener nerf.
2. The point of tanking is to absorb alot of damage (contrary to popular belief that it is supposed to faceroll and one shot everything)
3. Shield tank fits make large sacrifices in the range/speed/dps department.
4. In a small group setting shield tanking requires micromanagement and additional DPS sacrifices
5. In a large group setting as GLImPse has said, you just need enough DPS to kill 1 of them which should be EASY in a large group.

TLDR:

Buff armor tanking to be close to rival effectiveness of shield tank
Also nerf ERP cause we can't faceroll it with DPS

Kthnx

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Syndic wrote:

I agree with hunter, erp definitely needs nerf. lol

+1 nerf the *** out of it.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

Prime wrote:

i suggest just nerf erp... it should help.

Lol

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Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

How Many Modules You Need To Tank Like A Beast In A Shield Tank.. Hardeners, Shield And Injector.(3 Modules)
How Many Modules You Need To Tank Like A Beast In Armor Tank... Repair, Hardeners, Plated, Tunnings And Injector (5 Modules)

Shield Need A Big Change Or Armor Need One. But Right Now They Are Not Even Close To Be Equal

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

ChoRiz0 Balboa wrote:

How Many Modules You Need To Tank Like A Beast In A Shield Tank.. Hardeners, Shield And Injector.(3 Modules)
How Many Modules You Need To Tank Like A Beast In Armor Tank... Repair, Hardeners, Plated, Tunnings And Injector (5 Modules)

Shield Need A Big Change Or Armor Need One. But Right Now They Are Not Even Close To Be Equal

"Beast" shield tank fits use more/different modules than that.

Also armor tanks do more DPS naturally.

I do agree armor tanking may need an adjustment, but you should consider more than just the number of modules you must fit.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

I am not talking about DPS... yes you can do more DPS but the shield take all the damage as 1 kind of damage that's the big problem. if a blue or yellow or green shoot a shield is the same you have no paper, Scissors, Rock. the shield have no weakness to a specific damage.

25 (edited by Sundial 2011-12-05 19:02:38)

Re: Why is end game all in shields?!

ChoRiz0 Balboa wrote:

I am not talking about DPS... yes you can do more DPS but the shield take all the damage as 1 kind of damage that's the big problem. if a blue or yellow or green shoot a shield is the same you have no paper, Scissors, Rock. the shield have no weakness to a specific damage.

If all mechanics were the same across all colors, the game would be boring.

I think it would be good to see the amount of accumulator you reduced when shooting at shields, but thats the only change I think necessary.

Armor tanking needs an adjustment, shield tanking is fine.

Remember, shield tanking has been nerfed already as well.

Buff armor tanking in a way that is not OP, leave shield tanking alone.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.