Re: The knowledge base

I like the concept, what Hunter proposed earlier:

To make prototype you should have certain kernels, not knowledge. To make t3 proto, you should take N t3 kernels, and produce prototype from them.

Also i would like to see new sources of kernel income, not just artifacting and npc-o-shooting.
This change will remove stupid "researching" from game.
Researching leads to inventions, not to unlocking what someone knew already lol.

Re: The knowledge base

I would start with removing the t1 knowledge base...

except for some items that do not drop from npcs (for several outdated reasons) T1 can be looted. why do we have to go through thousands of kernels to unlock T2 ?

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28

Re: The knowledge base

I would support this if all t1 items were put on npc loot tables including nexus’s, shields etc.. .

Honestly everything in the game should be able to be looted from either NPC’s, Missions or Artifact Hunting. This list should include EVERYTHING ..prototypes, Robots, Teleports, Construction blocks, Injector Charges, containers, Structure CT’s … it should all be open for hunters to hunt for.

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Re: The knowledge base

i disagree that t1 and prototypes should be lootable from npcs in current form.

i agree that every module ingame (higher tier) should be used by NPCs and have a chance to drop.

with outdated reasons im reffering to "NPCs now got accumulator mechanics" - previously it would have been impossible to kill a shielded NPC with infinite Accumulator.

for structure CTs and such... well, there should be NPCs building bases wink

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Re: The knowledge base

Tux wrote:

I would support this if all t1 items were put on npc loot tables including nexus’s, shields etc.. .

Honestly everything in the game should be able to be looted from either NPC’s, Missions or Artifact Hunting. This list should include EVERYTHING ..prototypes, Robots, Teleports, Construction blocks, Injector Charges, containers, Structure CT’s … it should all be open for hunters to hunt for.

In that case bots should actually blo...group like players and act like so.

Re: The knowledge base

I really would like to see NPCs utilizing ERPs and Nexxus and various other things.

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Re: The knowledge base

Or build gamma bases, escorted by huge caravans.

Re: The knowledge base

Ville wrote:

I really would like to see NPCs utilizing ERPs and Nexxus and various other things.

and using various fittings, like erp-tanks or shielded tyrannos, and RR ofc

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Re: The knowledge base

NPCs using stuff like RR (ofcourse not on small alpha spawns, or they'd eat all the nubs for dinner) would be super awesome as it would not only add to the games PvE (where it's pretty lacking) but would also give ewar a role in PvE, which would be super awesome :3

Re: The knowledge base

A quote from a recent beginner's guide to industry by Goffer:

"Warning: The first items are quite easy to unlock, but it will take kernels worth more than 1 billion NIC to unlock the first really interessting items."

To the devs: is this really what you want newcomers to the game to see after they do a few missions and decide they want to go into industry because there's not enough stuff on the market?

It would be really nice to have some kind of dev response, at least along the lines of "this is working as intended" or "we were expecting it to be cheaper based on the population at the time" or simply a "we are aware of this".

+1
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Re: The knowledge base

The current system has been created knowing that corporations won't take the risk of feeding one character, and lose all the knowledge when he drops out for any reason. Well, guess what, they did tongue Everyone feels forced to do it because everyone else is doing it, and they don't want to fall behind in the tech race. And then we made the mistake of balancing this flawed system to be slower instead of fixing the root issue. So yes, we have some ideas and we intend to change this.

37 (edited by Goffer 2012-08-05 15:28:14)

Re: The knowledge base

In my opinion, the flaw is not the fact, that you need that many kernel to learn everything, the flaw is, that you have no real choice to specialise in a small direction that allows to finish some relevant items with lets say 200 Kernel by selecting not only kernle size, but also give choice for instance between weapon, ewar or nexus when reserarching.

Re: The knowledge base

Thanks for your response Zoom, i realise its not an easy thing to balance but its reassuring to hear that the devs are thinking about it.

+1
-Confucius

Re: The knowledge base

there have been planty og good ideas around the forums for a long time.

this is a major thing with major changes. would be nice to hear what you plan befor the implementation. and i think maybe we will get a few good things out of a discussion to improve it.

Re: The knowledge base

We will of course share our ideas, once we think they are solid.

Re: The knowledge base

DEV Zoom wrote:

We will of course share our ideas, once we think they are solid.

whats the definition of "solid" ?

in theory or in code?

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Re: The knowledge base

It means when we are confident that you won't point out a critical flaw right after we post it on the blog.

Re: The knowledge base

If your so confident about something that you believe that noone finds a critical flaw on it, then there is also a high chance that you don't believe someone that actually finds one...

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Re: The knowledge base

I guess that disclaimer is really needed there.

Re: The knowledge base

Translation: they try to think of everything at EVERY angle before posting, not just a dev standpoint?

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46 (edited by Goffer 2012-08-06 06:51:06)

Re: The knowledge base

My experience with general developing  is: No group of developer is able to came out with that "evil" ideas, that final user will have. So I don't expect flawless solutions, but I appreciate, that the Devs wait until they removed all (for them) obvoius problems. And  accept that this is no easy task, done in 2 days.

Re: The knowledge base

DEV Zoom wrote:

It means when we are confident that you won't point out a critical flaw right after we post it on the blog.

Annis lack of sleep is starting to show Zoom.  We really appreciate looking into it.

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48 (edited by Stranger Danger 2012-08-21 21:54:48)

Re: The knowledge base

In my humble opinion, basic items shouldn't be out of reach for your average joe who wants to basically craft.

It seems that most industry is reserved for corporations, who obviously dont need any more or new player taking up the art of industry.  This is bad.  It reserves a major aspect of the game for the few who are "in" enough with a corp who will feed them kernals and mats.

I dont see an issue with the best extensions and bots requiring a corp's farming efforts and having those items reserved for serious industry accounts.

Its the basics.  I want to be able to be self sufficient with making basic extensions, ammo for my combat character...hell it would even be nice to be able to pump out some bots so that i can pvp more.

As far as i remember, getting into a corp, your basically told to not spec into industry its already covered be a miner. Thats all fine and good to need a lot of mining character, however theres got to be a system that makes a large number of people interested in industry advantageous to a corp, while at the same time allowing casual people to be able to contribute something to the market.

Something does need to change with the insane amount of kernals needed to unlock stuff.  If anything research should be a time based function not a quantity of kernals munched type of mechanic.

Also i would LOVE to see some type of communal industry functions for corps.  So adding some noob with lv3 industry into the corp will benefit the corp rather than being ignored or rejected due to not being needed.

My idea is somewhat long winded.  I would like to see more corp based structures, not just on gamma.  Perhaps a corp factory where anyone with any type of industry could park and work on work orders of things needed by the corp, while mining characters could mine the materials and have transports dump those mats into a corp storage faclility that would be connected to the factory that was pumping out goods.  Basically a corp structure for every aspect of the games grouped extensions. I realize that would take far too much programming to even be realistic but its nice to dream.

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Re: The knowledge base

To be honest, I am in a corp and it has help me somewhat get my research up, but most of the researching I have done was me getting off my own arse and out their to kernal farm for my indy alt. Yes I have more than 1 account and this made it easier, but the fact remains i got off my arse to do some endless kernal farming, and enjoyed doing it immensely. It has taken a long time to get to where I am in regards to what I have achieved.
What I am hearing here sounds to me like people want something and they want it now, and they want it to be easily attainable. Get over it, and get on with it, yes it takes along time, but hey this is an MMO, it is supposed to take a long time.
But I will agree with one thing said in this topic and that is there needs to be a kernal tree defining what unlocks what so you can guide your research, that would make things alittle easier because then you can target specific NPC's to get what you need and it will also give you more control over where your research is heading.

Anyway back to the grind, Happy farming!

Re: The knowledge base

Shelts916 wrote:

What I am hearing here sounds to me like people want something and they want it now, and they want it to be easily attainable. Get over it, and get on with it, yes it takes along time, but hey this is an MMO, it is supposed to take a long time.
But I will agree with one thing said in this topic and that is there needs to be a kernal tree defining what unlocks what so you can guide your research!


I agree, thinking about this, there is not much to fix. You can also still specialize on a specific faction to get what you need researched faster, although a more defining kernel tree is welcome. Only problem is the PVE farming aspect is not fun for me at all after long periods.

Find a solution to the PVE aspect of kernal farming, i.e different ways to reach the same goals like the tokens for structure kernals and a more varied and fun approach to PVE grinding.

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