101

Re: DEV - Player conference

It's kinda simple - if the population becomes lesser and lesser, then the game is going in a wrong way. And no matter what will you say next - "it's all because of ERP nerf" or 'teleport build area change" or whatever - it's just a symptomes.

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Re: DEV - Player conference

If you say 'ERP nerf' 3 times it summons Hunter wink

103 (edited by Annihilator 2012-07-07 18:32:05)

Re: DEV - Player conference

its simple - the game is a grind4pvp game. It has no real PvE content, no single player content, and its has a linear progression, where EVERYTHING is balanced around T4 maxed extension multiboxing Agents.

DEVs fail at implementing low-level stuff that isnt instantly exploited by vets into multiboxing farming mechanics (eg. "golden triangle", Observer, plasma, etc. )

Gamma islands are the cream-tip on those mechanics, where everything is based around 200 man grinding + defending.

Market is non existant because of constant demand in PvE, and omnipotential self sufficiency PvP.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: DEV - Player conference

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

So what of rewards. So far we have some good suggestions including Wild Noralgis from Line (here) although I think it should be quite a rare plant - nothing like the forests of Helio and Triand you find on alpha/beta.

We also have good ideas for NPC farming buffs.

A further reward to throw into the mix would be a very large increase in facility points but not by just increasing the points on the facility. To use factory as an example, currently on alpha 250-300 points is not difficult to achieve - a module/bot can be produced for between 112-114% of base materials.

On gamma a factory facility should be able to push 1500 points at the top end whilst maintaining the balance between the significance of extensions, the CT and the facility. This would mean a module/bot could be produced for about 103-104% of base materials.

To avoid diminishing the value of the extensions players have sunk their EP into, all tech levels of facility have a base of 400 points upgradeable to 500 points but the Standard will double points from extensions, the advanced triple them and the hi-tech quadruple them. A small buff to the calibration lab and/or decoder forge and about 1500 points would be achieved with roughly a third of the points contributed by each of CT, facility and extensions.

Combine this with a similar system for refinery, RE and proto and suddenly we have a good reward for gamma

To clarify I think you mean something like this:
Standard facility= x2 extension multiplier
Advanced facility= x3 extension multiplier
Hi-tech facility= x4 extension multiplier

I think this is a great addition to the reward for gamma, along with others this would be a good idea for change.

Re: DEV - Player conference

Canthra Monero wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

So what of rewards. So far we have some good suggestions including Wild Noralgis from Line (here) although I think it should be quite a rare plant - nothing like the forests of Helio and Triand you find on alpha/beta.

We also have good ideas for NPC farming buffs.

A further reward to throw into the mix would be a very large increase in facility points but not by just increasing the points on the facility. To use factory as an example, currently on alpha 250-300 points is not difficult to achieve - a module/bot can be produced for between 112-114% of base materials.

On gamma a factory facility should be able to push 1500 points at the top end whilst maintaining the balance between the significance of extensions, the CT and the facility. This would mean a module/bot could be produced for about 103-104% of base materials.

To avoid diminishing the value of the extensions players have sunk their EP into, all tech levels of facility have a base of 400 points upgradeable to 500 points but the Standard will double points from extensions, the advanced triple them and the hi-tech quadruple them. A small buff to the calibration lab and/or decoder forge and about 1500 points would be achieved with roughly a third of the points contributed by each of CT, facility and extensions.

Combine this with a similar system for refinery, RE and proto and suddenly we have a good reward for gamma

To clarify I think you mean something like this:
Standard facility= x2 extension multiplier
Advanced facility= x3 extension multiplier
Hi-tech facility= x4 extension multiplier

I think this is a great addition to the reward for gamma, along with others this would be a good idea for change.

i think this is not a good way to do it. well this is a thing i wanted to mention at the meeting (but forgot) and wanted to put in my big post (but forgot again) so here it comes... no big deal but:
i think the curve for extention points to efficiency is a little bit too flat. not that there have to be too big changes, but i think with maxed extentions and maxed facilities (taking into consideration that the devs do not plan for extremly better skills and facility boni in the future) should get closer to the 105% in total. players with high skills and the best stuff should have a few more % as bonus... so just a small ateration of this curve will make that happen. no special boni for that needed.

Re: DEV - Player conference

I also think that the curve is too shallow at the high end but the point I was making was two-fold. Firstly more reward for gamma to balance the high risk and secondly a way to maintain the significance of extensions.

If a facilty and CT make up 4/5 of the points or more in a production process then the three weeks worth of EP one has sunk into Advanced Mass Production extension would probably have been better spent elsewhere.

By applying a multiplier to extensions at gamma facilities the extensions become more relevant again. By making it possible to reach 1500 points with maxed out facility, CT and extensions (with multiplier) you reach the 105% or better that you mention.

No matter what shape the curve is, and at what level of points 105% or better is achieved, if you don't find a way to maintain the balance then extensions become devalued.

Re: DEV - Player conference

that would defeate the reson for the change.

i saw a significant enough difference between boosted Gamma STANDARD facilities and Alpha2 facilities.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: DEV - Player conference

i am more comparing a beta facility (125) with a gamma one.
but the bonus is indeed not so small. cause ou get it for the refiningand the production which will add up in the end. additionaly you have the bonus from the mining tower. so in the end this will more then only 2-3%. i havent done the math but a certain source told me today in a irc discussion that its around or more then 10% in total. which is a significant difference

Re: DEV - Player conference

dont forget the CT lab - extending the lifetime of your CTs by a not so small factor.

since the prototyping costs got increased significantly (from factor 10 at zero extension, its now factor 10 at maxed...) that is a HUGE factor in tiered production.

theocrafting:
two 100 point cts are 200 modules. with the ct-lab you get another 50 additional cycles.
do a new proto, get another 100 point CT, work it down and merge the two again and get 50 more cycles.

that thing cannot be built on alpha... the spreadsheet guy surely can calculate the production advantage out of that!

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: DEV - Player conference

no real spredsheet needed for that.. but its still a small thing:

100p ct = 100 items = 1 prototype at x10 costs of 1 item.

so basicly prototyping is with that calculation 10% from the overall production costs. this will be reduced by 20% with the additional points. so be basicly ~8% more for prototyping.

but on gamma you have better facilities. that should give you more points in the cts as the 100 if i am correct. this will further reduce the additional prototyping costs compared to mass production.

Re: DEV - Player conference

So did anything come out of this conference?

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Re: DEV - Player conference

Wonder how many blocks this "package" takes to build lol

Re: DEV - Player conference

Qwertyboom wrote:

Wonder how many blocks this "package" takes to build lol

Good thing you can just buy them for cheap on the market smile, they don't even need to build them!

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: DEV - Player conference

and i fear no bugfixes, hotfixes or such until they finished the package.

everyday no hotfix for the extensionbug is a lost new player...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

115

Re: DEV - Player conference

After listening to the developer conference here are my opinions on topics that were and were not discussed.
1.    I agree 1000 meter from the teleports is a good range to limit building and terraforming at.

2.    I agree that corporations need more than 3 to 4 random spawns on the gamma islands in order for them to be able to sustain themselves on that.

~ A solution for this is to introduce a new type of NEXUS tower that acted as a beacon does and spawns NPC’s but at a slower rate.

3.    Terraforming does need to come down in cost it is not feasible to create many of my personal designs and other designs that many other people have made with terraforming being so expensive.

~ A solution for this would be to allow players to make their own terraforming charges, these charges should be easily produced just as miner charges are. 

4.    Being able to defend PBS’s should allow for different types of defense plans, currently the best defense is to wall of Teleports. My opinion is that if the structures cant be blown up by a single Mech in ~5min then it would be more effective to guard the settlement instead of the island.

~ Example if my settlement was based in the center of an island and I had command relays spidering out over the island to control my mining towers one Mech can make very quick work of the command relay and cut off parts of my settlement. If I want to prevent this type of action I need to either prevent access to my island by walling TP’s or that structure needs more HP in order for me to respond in time. Because there are no internal TP’s on these islands response times can vary widely depending on the terrain of the island.   

~ Simple Solution ADD more HP to all Structures (this will be needed anyways as the player base increases).

Some of the topics that were discussed were interesting and something that I think would really help with people going to and living on gamma other than the NPC issue is allowing the terminals to sell all syndicate seeded items … HECK it could be a building just like the factory.. and it could be destroyed just like the others as well. .
I think it Gamma needs to be the next frontier and not a no~man’s land with 1 resource that sets it apart from the other islands. I don’t think there should be 1 overpowering incentive to attract corporations to gamma, but it does need to be able to sustain corporations that choose to live there.

I agree whit the person who made the comment that they needed to have a beta outpost and a gamma one because gamma didn’t offer everything their corp needed. This should never be the case.

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Re: DEV - Player conference

going through all those suggestions - here are mine:

  • Terminal provides 500m Colixium mining aura
    -> start your corps gamma career ontop of a colixium field

  • Terminal provides 2000m radius Terraforming Aura
    -> eg boosting beacon strength by 200%. This would give the outpost owner a 2/3 advantage regarding terraforming costs.

  • Introduce 4 qualities of construction blocks:
    -"syn-tech"   can only be used to build standard terminal and reactor
    -"standard"  counts as 1 block, only usable for standard buildings
    -"advanced" counts as 2 blocks for standard buildings, 1 block for advanced - unable to build hitech
    -"Hi-tech"    counts as 3 bocks for standard, 2 blocks for advanced, and 1 for hitech buildings

    standard blocks are built from colixium + local present plants

  • Terminal provides the 6 standard Facilities by default, 10 points each
    -> you can start building on gamma right away when you got your terminal finished building it.

  • NPC Trading HUB foundation
    -> adds syndicate trade services to your colony, for selling plasma and providing missions. needs good relation with one of the three human NPC conglomerates.

  • remove the off-island plant from each factions commodities
    - no triandlus in Polynitrocol
    - no helioptris in Polynucleit
    - no prismocitae in Phlobotil

  • Repair node:
    - connections only for setting priorities
    - automatically repairs damaged buildings in its range
    - to not make it imba - add LoS
    - switchable between building repair or wall/concrete maintainence

  • Turret NEXUS Booster Nodes
    - no connections, instead NEXUS aura providing the effects to all buildings
    - same restriction as player NEXUS: max 3 effects per building.
    - does not stack with linked booster, but linked booster effect has priority

  • Energy Transmission
    - scrap the concept of cyclic energy transmission from node to node
    - make reactor power-output x AP/s and count the whole network as one entity
    - Energy node working like crystals in StarCraft
    - backbones connecting per direct link over long distances

  • Concrete and Walltiles as Terraforming sealing
    - both should protect ground from terraforming

  • Terraforming around Buildings
    - If something static is within the TF range of a beacon that cannot be terraformed, then mask that groundtile from the Terraforming effect instead of spamming errors.
    This would enable Terraforming corrections around buildings in own base

  • tbc

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: DEV - Player conference

Annihilator wrote:

NPC Trading HUB foundation
-> adds syndicate trade services to your colony, for selling plasma and providing missions. needs good relation with one of the three human NPC conglomerates.

sounds a little bit to much like easy mode imo

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue