Topic: Shields/Dmobs

I agree with almost all the activities that a pilot can perform from the turtle shell that is a shield except: Demobilization.

While a shield is activated: - a defensive turtling posture -

Electronic pulses that cause havoc with another persons electronics (suppression, ECM) can be reasoned through.

Effecting another pilots energy with a device that removes his accumulator (drainers, Neutralizers)....questionable but I am still on board with how this makes for good game play.

Weapons that cause DPS to a target (turrets, launchers) should not be allowed, and currently are not: spot on.

Demobilization is defined as a super heated pulse that overheats the mechanical nature of the robots joints, slowing him to a drastically reduced speed. 

I consider this ability to be as much of an offensive action, and as effective as applying DPS.  In description, it is almost as focused as a shot from a laser turret.

Considering the aggressive nature of a demobilization module, it should not be among the allowable modules for activation from under the defensive turtle posture of a shield.

2 (edited by MegaMaid 2011-11-21 17:49:45)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Takeo Prime wrote:

I agree with almost all the activities that a pilot can perform from the turtle shell that is a shield except: Demobilization.

While a shield is activated: - a defensive turtling posture -

Electronic pulses that cause havoc with another persons electronics (suppression, ECM) can be reasoned through.

Effecting another pilots energy with a device that removes his accumulator (drainers, Neutralizers)....questionable but I am still on board with how this makes for good game play.

Weapons that cause DPS to a target (turrets, launchers) should not be allowed, and currently are not: spot on.

Demobilization is defined as a super heated pulse that overheats the mechanical nature of the robots joints, slowing him to a drastically reduced speed. 

I consider this ability to be as much of an offensive action, and as effective as applying DPS.  In description, it is almost as focused as a shot from a laser turret.

Considering the aggressive nature of a demobilization module, it should not be among the allowable modules for activation from under the defensive turtle posture of a shield.

If they did this then shields should also make you demob immune.

And why stop at just demob? How about ECM and Suppression as well. Drainers and neuts certaintly as well.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Takeo Prime wrote:

While a shield is activated: - a defensive turtling posture

So ... when a sheild is active, mobility should be reduced to turtle speed too? Meaning you're applying demob to yourself by activating a sheild, in which case, I agree that demob should have no additional effect. If you want a turtle shell, you have to take the bad with the good, not just all the good.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Arga wrote:
Takeo Prime wrote:

While a shield is activated: - a defensive turtling posture

So ... when a sheild is active, mobility should be reduced to turtle speed too? Meaning you're applying demob to yourself by activating a sheild, in which case, I agree that demob should have no additional effect. If you want a turtle shell, you have to take the bad with the good, not just all the good.

I think that an aggressive act like firing a weapon and demobilization should not be allowed while the shield is activated.

Add the demob to "not allowed" list along with the other current aggressive acts on the list.

That is all

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Now I remember why I stopped posting... *back to Skyrim for me*

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Arga wrote:

Now I remember why I stopped posting... *back to Skyrim for me*


Good Choice yikes

Just Sayin
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7 (edited by Celebro 2011-11-24 20:50:30)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Arga wrote:

Now I remember why I stopped posting... *back to Skyrim for me*

Well said, OP doesn't seem to want to accept reasoning and I hate when they avoid reasonable questions.

No offence but somethings are not easy to balance without a complete overhaul of the mechanics.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shields/Dmobs

You do not change game mechanics to fit lore. You change lore to fit game mechanics.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Takeo Prime wrote:

Demobilization is defined as a super heated pulse that overheats the mechanical nature of the robots joints, slowing him to a drastically reduced speed. 
.

theres a difference bettween a "super heated pulse" and a "high power microwave pulse"

the demob does not radiate heat itself, its creating heat at the target, with waves that actually can pass the shield (if they could not, the shield would block all sensoring system, all ewar systems, etc.

even the so called "lasers" in this game cannot be pure light - they consume ammo, and they deal KINETIC energy!

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

10 (edited by Goffer 2011-11-25 16:11:00)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

I don't like to put logic into game, when game mechanic needs to be balanced, because game mechanics has its own logic. And therefore it is ok to have laser producing any damage and shields blocking all "damage" but allowing all other waves passing through.

I believe atm we have a quite worse problem with the fact, that you can stop shield, fire after shield stops and start again within factions of a second. As the shield bearer gets a countdown, he is able to react, while his opponent has nearly no chance to hit the slot when shield is down.

In fact the question if laserbeam is wave or partical is at the moment controverse discussed by scientists.
To the kinectic damage, it is in "reality" introduced by vaporising the upper layer of the material that is hit by laser ("laser ablation").

Re: Shields/Dmobs

yep... in early Star Trek science, it was a rule that you cannot beam through shields... but you could fire your own weapons from inside out, while the other side had to hit the shields.

later it got a bit complicated - using the own teleporters through shields was normal, and the fiction was then build around it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Shields/Dmobs

What always got me about Star trek was the obvious issue that there's some type of energy blast coming in and it hits the ship because the captain didn't order the shields up. The computer is constantly scanning and could have easily raised shields automatically ... but it builds drama. So theatrics trumps common sense and technology, but at least they were consistent in thier cannon (even if it wasn't what you would expect from advanced cultures). While there's probably something about having a 'human' in the command loop, that doesn't make a lot of sense considering all the technology that they use daily under computer control; for instance the replicator and teleporter, both of which are much more complicated and life threatening then 'raising sheilds'. Specifically, people put thier lives into the hands of complex computer functions on a daily basis, but then trick themselves into having a sense of control over technology by putting themselves into the loop. And yes there could be situations where the captain doesn't want the sheilds up, but those times would be the exception, and it would make more sense to order 'over-rides' for those situations... but its TV, so smile

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Never gave it much  thought myself lol, though very valid points. Since I was so young when star trek was aired ( I only consider TNG and TOS "true" ST, though DS9's my fav and VOY aint half bad, ENT I don't wanna talk about ) but yea, "Raise shields" is loopy smile

And to keep the post on subject, imo shields are cool now (from gameplay point of view) and see no reason to change their mechanics.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Triglav wrote:

And to keep the post on subject, imo shields are cool now (from gameplay point of view) and see no reason to change their mechanics.


i have to agree with trig here they work well atm you get a trade off for defense but no damage offence.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

i have to agree with trig here they work well atm you get a trade off for defense but no damage offence.

As I allready wrote above, a skilled player stops shield, fires when down and starts shields again.
WIth macro usage this will lead to beeing vulnarable a time that small, that most people have higher lag than this vulnerability. This means that shields can be used for offensive in a quite effective way. And as it is "Intended" game play it is quite hard to call that exploiting.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

shields got changed to enable that. they got nerfed back a bit to make it harder (5s cycletime instead of 2s)
so with macro i could actually use shields on my seth... but the shield bonus of the seth was removed sad

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

17 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2011-12-01 13:38:11)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Goffer wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

i have to agree with trig here they work well atm you get a trade off for defense but no damage offence.

As I allready wrote above, a skilled player stops shield, fires when down and starts shields again.
WIth macro usage this will lead to beeing vulnarable a time that small, that most people have higher lag than this vulnerability. This means that shields can be used for offensive in a quite effective way. And as it is "Intended" game play it is quite hard to call that exploiting.


what i ment was you cant fire behind an impenetrable shield. thus the balance.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

18 (edited by Sundial 2011-12-02 02:39:10)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

I use macros with my shield tank (well, you could call it that but I just binded both KEY_DOWN and KEY_UP so it fires then raises shields in 1 button press but that technically causes 2 events to be sent) and they work quite well, but I beleive it is a ballanced mechanic as I sacrifice a HUGE amount of my already small DPS doing this.

Goffer, even perfectly managing your shots / cycle, you can lose a large % of dps still doing this.

Say your cycle time is 8s, you lose 3s of DPS on average every cycle. 3/8 = 37.5% DPS loss

That is IF you can hit your enemy in the small window, and if you leave your shields down too long it further reduces DPS and increases vulnerability.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

i wonder why shields of all game mechanics not have that cooldowncycle that you have on weapons...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Sundial wrote:

Goffer, even perfectly managing your shots / cycle, you can lose a large % of dps still doing this.

Say your cycle time is 8s, you lose 3s of DPS on average every cycle. 3/8 = 37.5% DPS loss

That is IF you can hit your enemy in the small window, and if you leave your shields down too long it further reduces DPS and increases vulnerability.

If you use shield you are invulnerable in 1on1 until you meet someone with neuter (which is no common PvP fit).
And even simple neut equipment is not enough to crack up a good shielded Trojar.

Do you think that it should be ok to be invulnerable against 95% of PVP setup by sacrifying less than 40% of dps but still having enough dps to kill most bots in reasonable time?

In most setups in PO it is worth to sacrify some dps and equip something else instead (range/demob/ECM/ECCM/...). Your major "loss" of dps is situational when having shields most time up. In case you need more dps, but can afford to risk a hit you just let shields down and have normal dps.

21 (edited by Sundial 2011-12-04 07:53:45)

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Goffer wrote:
Sundial wrote:

Goffer, even perfectly managing your shots / cycle, you can lose a large % of dps still doing this.

Say your cycle time is 8s, you lose 3s of DPS on average every cycle. 3/8 = 37.5% DPS loss

That is IF you can hit your enemy in the small window, and if you leave your shields down too long it further reduces DPS and increases vulnerability.

If you use shield you are invulnerable in 1on1 until you meet someone with neuter (which is no common PvP fit).
And even simple neut equipment is not enough to crack up a good shielded Trojar.

Do you think that it should be ok to be invulnerable against 95% of PVP setup by sacrifying less than 40% of dps but still having enough dps to kill most bots in reasonable time?

In most setups in PO it is worth to sacrify some dps and equip something else instead (range/demob/ECM/ECCM/...). Your major "loss" of dps is situational when having shields most time up. In case you need more dps, but can afford to risk a hit you just let shields down and have normal dps.

Define "invulnerable"

Shield tanking is the only kind of active tank left in the game worth a damn. Its a big shame armor tanking is not viable anymore, but I really like my being able to tank!

Shield tanks don't have good range, don't do good DPS, and are generally slow (Green) and can be demobbed/ewar etc.

Outrunning a shield tank is easy.

Situational yes. Completely overpowered? No, I would say it is properly balanced.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Shields/Dmobs

This is *** Hilarious.

They basically took ERP's out of the game, after some butt hurt idiots couldn't kill them, and now you want shields to STAY THE SAME?

Logic much?

Saying its "properly balanced" is a farce at best.

I don't have a solution to the shield Imba, but it HAS to be looked at, in the most serious manner.

To ignore will just make people leave the game faster.

Just Sayin
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Re: Shields/Dmobs

firearms are imba... they can fire with your accumulator almost empty... player will leave game faster
missiles are imba... they can hit you where you dont have los with turretes... player will leave game faster

someone has a name that is against the basic rule of name creation, but doesnt get renamed -> player will leave the game faster.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Everything is imbalanced that why it's 'balanced'.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shields/Dmobs

Well it seems that a simple cycle time on a shield would give enough opportunity for an attacker to cause damage to a shielded opponent if he decides to drop his shield to apply any dps....guns, missiles, lasers.

If you drop your shields just have a 15 sec recharge timer before they go back up. I think this gives good strategy to  shield and non-shield fits.