Oh noes they are going to take away my old outpost mechanics! Imma ragequit now qq.

So far for "beta player rage on beta changes/removes".

So if they have no chance to compete with his 300k EP monster and even he admits he doesn't get much, why would anyone else bother and really notice the change?

Srsly get started again smokey, because you are changing your opinions as you see fit.

Again:
You are either getting godly amount and it should be nerfed or you are not getting much and the lack of espitium is not going to be a hit to the indus, it's just one less place where epriton based things will appear.

One thing I do agree do a respec for the HGR skill.

Yeah, because we sell all the epriton we mine, on alpha!

No, this is the point no real discussion can be had, because I have my view on the matter, Smokey has his and there is no common grounds on which we can meet.

Mammoth is him saying once that 70% of his espitium is from farming and then stating espitium is not that really much, is not changing his opinion? If 70% is barely anything I think we have some new maths, better than the Hungarian ones

Why are you attacking me? I am being reasonable - I don't call him an imbecile and give my view on the matter.
Attack him, he does both.

To quote Korben Dallas - "I only speak two languages, English and bad English".

I'm not the only one highlighting his ever-changing argument.

So what "agenda" would that be exactly? I can't wait to hear this.

If you read back, the first to start with the abuse and attacks were those who disagree with this change.

Like the changes to Beta ownership which I think perfectly compliment this change?

Only some people are pulling out the "PvP" element. This change does not inherently promote increased PvP.

Really? Can I ask how you come to this conclusion? Or is it simply because more people live on Alpha?

Then people either adapt or die. By the time every single Beta island can be guarded in such a manner, there will be a plethora of other changes made to the game.

@Rodger

Australians speak English. Australian English if you like. His argument has been better than yours, signed, someone who disagrees with his argument. I can't wait either. Yes, I noticed, as I mentioned, did you read what you quoted, or only the section you're currently quoting? None of those changes will affect the flow of epriton to alpha. No, it doesn't, it promotes reduced pvp, as I mentioned in the very sentence you decided to quote two words out of. He has the numbers, anyone who has thought about it and researched it a little bit has also seen the numbers, most people don't like pvp, I do. You already quoted the section referring to this, why don't you go read it again.

There is no plethora! See, I can argue with the strawman by selectively quoting too. Go me, now everyone knows I'm right. Plethoras don't even exist!

@Norrdec

It's a valid point, I'd counter with the fact that ninja mining is pretty easy right now, I'd expect that to stop as things progress. I may be wrong, but it's not something I'd leave to chance, especially when the rational decision is to avoid selling it no matter how you obtain it. If you want pvp activity, you need people who can pvp competitively. Guys who can't build decent mods, mechs, or heavies are not exactly going to be taking over half the map. You want people to get involved, they need to be able to do it on a reasonably level playing field.

Awww, the numbers I was talking about were the numbers of players who are active in null sec vs the number of players who are active in high sec on eve. Nor is eve the only game where such studies have been done. Not even the only market sector. You're still arguing with the strawman anyway.

Let's see, good corps will watch their gates. Whether any corps turn out to be good is another question. Recycling won't provide epriton based commodities. Selling a useful military resource you have a monopoly on is stupid. Where do you suggest alpha players will be getting mechs from? Taking advantage of stupid people and bad corps? At least now they're able to get a 'negligible' amount of them. Take that away and they will need to implement other changes to increase the flow of epriton to alpha if they want to increase the number of people pvping, as I mentioned. In fact, I think they already need to.

Annnd way to miss the point on your little dictionary search there. Thanks for the support though.

Yeah that's what I said Norrdec, bad corps and stupid people. Not the most reliable sources. Certainly not enough to go to war over an outpost with anyone who controls an outpost. Still, you can always run through the gate and log out of sight of the guard to come back later and steal some epri. Or kill the guard and do the same. As I said, I'm mostly just concerned that almost every change seems to increase the barrier to entry. This one in particular doesn't bother me, again, like I said, just using it as an example.

No, I'm pretty sure I covered selling military resources potential rivals have no access to under the 'stupidity' section.

I'm an alt. I enjoy these kinds of discussions and often find myself not on the party line. Rather than alienate my corp and allies, I try for anonymity.

I was just making a tea and it occured to me that selling epriton, while a risk, could potentially pay off quite well for the largest corps. No one who needs to buy epriton is going to threaten them, so they're really just destabilising their potential enemies by arming their enemies, at no net cost to themselves. Yes, there are issues with being publicly tied to it if discovered, and of course you can't sell on the open market because you have no control over who is buying, but it's there, so I was definitely wrong on that. My stupidity

Right, it's simple. The same basic thing you see with the oil deposits in the tar sands in Canada. If oil prices get high enough (due to a s/d mismatch) they get used, otherwise they get ignored because the cost of production is high.

We need an alternate route, and this is a simple one. It'd do a lot to help the market because there'd be no reason to not sell epi anymore -- people would just use the more expensive alternate route because, hey, more expensive is better than nothing.

Recycling is doing just fine. We get a decent chunk of minerals from recycling every day. It helps us keep up production and meet shortfalls.

But tbqfh, we need those modules to keep all our lines on dedicated indybears set to producing t2+ stuff so it's not something that super affects us.

Bull. Any player, even one with with low skills, can insure their argano and grab some epi without too much risk. We do it every day.

Heck, you can even do it in a light or assault if you want something that you can run away in.

Our corp has an advantage here because we're numerous enough that this will get us the minimum we need to keep production going. Not every corp can do that. So we need an alternate and more expensive to use recipe for the three compounds that require epi.