Well, if they support themselves through ratting, they should buy stuff off the market. I support myself through ratting, I buy stuff off the market.

For alpha indy corps, an additional alpha only mineral recipe for the epi requiring compounds would give them a less efficient option for doing the same thing. So that's how they'd handle things.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against me for. The change to t1 gear will help new players a lot as it'll make a wide range of gear cheaper. Only a small subset of older players actively uses it to produce, and they'd be better served by an alternate formula.

Eve made it clear that minerals coming from rats rather than miners is a great way to eliminate mining as a profession. So it's a good change.

Are you suggesting a second refining method to make espitium?

One of the issues with this is cost still.

Lets say espitium is valued at about 1500 NIC because the value is based on the fluctuating price of epitron. Any alternate refining method would require it to cost at least that much in alpha based materials; something like

Titan 750 (375 NIC)
HDT 750 (375 NIC)
Luiz 430 (750 NIC)

per (1) espitium

Now, it generally takes 30-50 titan ore to make a commodity.

What's going to happen is either alpha players are going to start making Espitium in volume and selling it, which will drive down the price to the point where no one would need to use epitron to make it, or just from normal volumes, the prices of titan will go up because of the very large amounts now needed to manufactor a single espitium.

For example, it takes 3000 esptium to make a T3 prototype, that's 2.25M titan ore verses about 40k that's needed now.

It was a good thought, but the amounts of 'cheap' material that would be needed to make espitium would make the price of everything go up.

***Apologies for another monster post, the discussion continued while I was asleep***

For something that doesn't particularly bother you, you are arguing against it pretty hard, or rather against those who support it.

I think that was pretty obvious by your attitude.

It's okay, I'm used to people without the backbone to stand by their statements in EVE.

Because the way the mechanic is with that particular resource, it shouldn't be gained through recycling the lowest tier modules.

As Mammoth is so fond of saying now, "you are missing the point".

So you know what benefits our corp better than we do?

Perhaps the DEVs want to discourage that mentality, or correct what they see as a loop-hole to a high-level material, or quite simply free up T1 manufacturing for new players.

It is impossible to give everything what they "want". Like in the real world, you don't always get what you "want".

Some of us want it gone, others don't. Some will get what they want, others won't.

Surprised this didn't come up sooner to be honest.

That is the "microcosm" mentality that I personally believe is a bad thing. For a critical and rare resource, when it's supply is threatened it should echo throughout the game.

The spice must flow.

Which is why it is a loop-hole, inefficient or not. If you really want it, recycle T2+ modules.

I think Aeon might be but my earlier suggestion was simply having two different build requirements on the CT. An efficient method and a less efficient method.

The less efficient method would use more lower-end materials in place of high-ends. Overall the cost would be significantly more (maybe say, 15%), but at least they would be buildable in a high-end shortage.

Could even make it that each bot has quality grades, based on what it was made with. The lower quality materials, the less hitpoints or such. If the quality grade was used, the less quality bots would work out cheaper, just not as strong as the high quality version.

For an analogy:

Stone Spear vs Bronze Spear vs Iron Spear

That would only occur if people were unable to use the efficient method.

Well I give back what I receive

I wasn't simply referring to you. Your perceived pedestal of superiority must come with quite a view.

By your own admission this change doesn't really bother you, so why such a desire to argue about it, or rather take the discussion off-topic?

You mean contradictory opinions?

Just because you don't consider our arguments "of substance" doesn't mean they aren't.

You really should re-read the thread. My argument unlike some has been consistent the entire thread, elaborating when necessary. I've only retorted to sarcasm and childish behaviour when it was levelled against me or others.

It is no more "irrelevant" or "clutching at straws" than your assumptions of total Beta lockdowns for instance.

I've already explained why I selectively quote, I guess you missed that. Also I don't see you trying to correct or clarify, just retorting with some pseudo-intellectual "hurr durr" behind an alt.

I'm done discussing it with you, I have better things to do.

you might want to note that nex (which aeon is a member of) do not currently own a beta outpost. Please check that your insults for validity