1 Topic by auster (edited by auster 2010-11-30 20:26:15)

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Topic: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

EDIT: modified so people can easily calculate their cycle time.
* Thanks to Recognizer for finding the solution *

I use a Standard small miner module (default cycle time): 18s. The cycle time according to the information window (equipped with Stermonit charges) is: 14.63s.
When mining Stermonit, I use 20 charges in approximately 292 seconds and thus the cycle time is approx 14.60s. = no problem/bug here.
With normal percentage calculation, this would be a decrease of (1 - 14.63/18) ~ 18.72%.

Now my bonuses with an effect on the cycle time of miner modules:
Argano cycle time bonus 5%
basic robotics 4 (bonus of 4*5% = 20%)
basic intensive mining 3 (bonus of 3*1% = 3%)
advanced extensive mining 0 (requires basic 4)
expert intensive mining 0 (requires advanced 5)
intensive stermonit mining 0 (requires basic 5)

What one might expect is a cycle time of 18-23% = 18*(1-0,23) = 13,86.

But as it turns out, the formula being used is as follows:
cycle-time = base-time / (1 + bonus)

e.g. cycle-time = 18 / 1.23 ~ 14.63

  • M2S
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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Extensions and bonuses are multiplied, not added.  This means that if you get a 1% increase from your next extension level, then that is taken over or under the current value.

Lets say you get a 50% cycle time bonus from 10 seconds, you now do 5 second cycles.

Then you get another 50% bonus, that takes your cycle from 5 seconds down to 2.5 seconds.

Get it?

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

I understand what you are trying to tell me.

The problem is that your formula would give me in my case 18s*(0.99*0.99*0.99)*(0.95*0.95*0.95*0.95) = 14.23s which also isn't how the game calculates, because I have 14.63s. And the ordering of what you upgrade next doesn't matter.

I know that this is not much time, but if you use it to calculate how much items you mine per hour (with 3 or more modules), then you have quite a difference to what you really get. Also think about the question where to spend your ep next ...

  • M2S
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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

I dont know the exact formulas, I 'm just trying to help you understand why you cant have negative cycle times.

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

cycle time of miner modules: bug or misunderstandig?

misunderstanding

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Recognizer wrote:

cycle time of miner modules: bug or misunderstandig?

misunderstanding

I'd be happy if you could tell me what my misunderstanig is wink

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Neoxx wrote:

I dont know the exact formulas, I 'm just trying to help you understand why you cant have negative cycle times.

I know. Thank you so far.
My guess is that there are some internal rounding/conversion problems which should be solved.

  • M2S
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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Yes, there are some rounding and decimal display discrepancies with many things in the game.

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/1672/#p1672

half of the miracle formula wink

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  • -CS-
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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

I have noticed the same issue with the display of miner cycle times.
Recognizer even taking into account that the first point in an extension may not count the numbers do not add up.
Neoxx I can not find any extensions that follow the behavior that you are talking about. Some of the simplest extensions for me to check are Accumulator Expansion (no points Spec. Ops Control), Reactor Expansion and Data Processing.  For example five points in Data Processing (3% increase in CPU performance per level) gives a 15% increase to CPU performance applied once not a 3% increase applied five times. In the other thread you talk about tuners applying after extensions. That seems to be true for all equipment that provides a percentage increase or decrease. (To be fair have not tested all things that have a percentage but I don't have access to many of them.)
The real issue is with numbers that are affected by more then one extension and/or robot bonuses. I can not find an order or set of numbers that gives the results that are displayed. As for this being a rounding or decimal discrepancy I doubt it since the numbers are wrong even if you decide to round in some funny way. 13.86 can not be rounded to 14.63 by any rules I am aware of.
I do not know if this is necessarily a game breaking item it is just a quest of mine to figure things out.

  • TM-UAS
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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

what i was referring to, is that its not
x * (1-bonus)

its
x/(1+bonus)

18/1,23 = 14,634146341463414634146341463415

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12 Reply by Benos (edited by Benos 2010-11-30 14:54:18)

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

it is the same formula than the resist.

with 100 resist you take 50% of the damage
with 100 cycle bonus you have 50% les time

with 50 you have 33.33%
with 100 you have 50%
with 200 you have 66.67%
with 300 you have 75%

formula : 1/(1+(x/100))
with fact = 100/(100+x)

it should not be name cycle "time in %" but "cycle time bonus" like the resists

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Thanks for the update good to know how it works.

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

auster wrote:
Recognizer wrote:

cycle time of miner modules: bug or misunderstandig?

misunderstanding

I'd be happy if you could tell me what my misunderstanig is wink

You rely too much on formulas...

15 Reply by auster (edited by auster 2010-12-03 17:54:39)

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

Chief Ubenor wrote:
auster wrote:
Recognizer wrote:

misunderstanding

I'd be happy if you could tell me what my misunderstanig is wink

You rely too much on formulas...

formulas help to decide whether i should spend my ep in decreasing the cycle time or increasing the mined amount ... or somewhere else when the gained advantage gets too small

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Re: cycle time of miner modules = x/(1+bonus)

actually have a request  in for more details in the Extension window, i made it after having talked to the gms at lenght and they told me they will prob implement one of these or both soon but the more interest my post has the better anyway. You can find it here

detailed-info-for-extensions-modifiers