meh,

As it stands there is NOT something for everyone in the game.  You have a choice of mob pvp on Beta or full protection on Alpha.

There aren't any gray areas where quite a few people like to play (I would argue most but that'd just be speculation).  Maybe they could make an island type that would fit in between the two and improve the different areas based on the amount of players that live there.  But, with this approach a new debate will pop up as to whether resource gathering in this new area should be higher than Alpha.

It either changes and a portion of their players will stay or it doesn't and that portion will go elsewhere.  Nobody has been playing here so long that they are married to the game.

I'm just advocating my point of view.  Disagree with it or don't.  But, I'm not the only one that feels this way based on other posts in this thread.  You may want to assign bad intentions to those that feel the way I do and therefore feel that it's just a small minority that agree with me but, you'd be wrong.  I have played eve for about 3 years and have never ganked anybody and actually have less than 10 kills total.  I just feel that that aspect of competition add to the gameplay on a level that an army of programmers can't.

/Other kicks himself for not saying this first

+1

I wasn't flying off the handle.  I was turning your own reasoning around and using it against you by assigning ulterior motives to your arguments.

As I said before, I am an industrialist.  I build things.  I want more things to blow up so that I can build more.  I hate combat pve and dont have any interest in combat pvp for my own reasons.  I really truly believe that some form of pvp in Alpha areas will add depth to player interaction and give meaning to the market.

I think I was absolutely clear in explaining my motivations.  If you actually read what I'm saying without suspecting some kind of evil plot to ruin your game then we can have a reasonable conversation.  By acting like a child you're not helping your side of the debate.

You suspect my motivations?  I suspect your motivations.  I think you just want a futuristic version of WoW.  Maybe you're a Chinese NIC farmer building up your reserves so that you can sell it through third party websites full of malicious software.

Try to make an intelligent argument instead of casting aspersions or STFU and let the adults talk.

kthxbye

A little more chaos needs to be injected into the game so that a smart player will be able to exploit those gray areas between pve and pvp to build a unique career path.  That's my definition of a sandbox MMO... chaos.  Once a game becomes predictable to me then its worthless.

As it stands now everything feels scripted and stale.

Wait until players start advancing to high EP levels.  World of Warcraft has that problem hence the artificial feeling level caps and bind on equip and bind on pickup items.    Additionally player interaction is reduced to trolling and looking for healers and tanks.

How do you like that crafting sytem and market you get in WoW?  That's where this game is going with the walled off PvP.  It's the exact same structure as WoW with a slighlty more robust crafting system and a slightly less linear playstyle.

I still maintain that player interactions in all parts of the game need to have both the possibility of positive and negative consequences that involves the destruction and creation of finished products.

Additionally there will never be enough equipment sinks in pve areas to make up for the volume of produced materials.  The economy will grow exponentially faster than player population.  In the end, lack of demand will reduce industry to a sideline career path.  There will no need for dedicated industrialists except for major Beta corps, as it would be pointless and the least profitable path in the game.  No industrialists means harvestors and miners will not be needed at any appreciable level.

The only solution would be taxes that are paid by turning in equipment, which doesn't make any sense, or the BOE or BOP system that WoW has.  I challenge you to find a single player in this forum that feels like any part of WoW is a good direction for this game.

+1.

Exploits and greifing aren't unique to pvp

Was assuming you were trolling as the majority of the population in games like this generally stick to the pve side or have played enough to understand that not everybody is nothing but pvp. I'll go ahead and assume that you're new to sandbox type MMOs.

That would be corporations that are all industrialists or combat pve.  They don't engage in pvp by choice.

A big problem in Eve for this type of corp is the amount of greifer corps that constantly keep them war decced so that the pve corps end up falling apart because the members have a choice of getting ganked immediately upon undocking or quitting the corp.

Fun for the greifer, game breaking for the pure pve people.

Game mechanics to force moderation would be reasonable for both sides.

Some of my thougts on it from a different thread.  I think corp vs corp is a good idea as long as you can keep the greifers from breaking the pve corp experience.  Something to keep the "HERP DERP... CAREBEARS... HERP DERP" to a minimum.

For better or worse those Goons have their place in creating demand in the type of complex market systems and player interactions that sandbox MMOs need to have to be viable.

The challenge is to build the mechanics so 14 year old Emo basement dwellers with single digit IQs don't completely dominate the gameplay of the more intelligent players for no other reason than they can.  In other words, it should require quite a bit more thought and challenge to wreck a miner's bot than it does in Eve.

Raising the difficulty of high security aggression on the part of the aggressor would require a reason to attack that 'carebear' due to complexities and challenge other than the "HERP DERP I BLOWED YUR MINUR UP HERP DERP!!1!!!!!1" that you get in Eve.

Voiding insurance policies for criminal acts on Alpha Islands would make a huge dent in that all by itself... that is as long as Perp could keep the macros and RMT at an extremely low level.  Creating and deleting an alt incuring a decent penalty, along with paid trials, will keep alpha striking noob mobs to a minimum (ex dessie mobs).  That combined with a criminal standing system that effects your ability to trade and travel in Alpha areas would make a large impact in the motivations of pointless ganks.

Well, i'm glad that this thread opened up because now i realize that i'm a minority here for believing that pvp and pve should be integrated much more deeply and nobody should be completely safe at all times from other players.  Perpetuum should design their game based on what the majority of the community wants, not what i want.

I'll never see the point in designing a game platform with both pve and pvp if they are treated as separate games and are completely walled off from each other.

With that being said, have fun with Perp guys, I hope everything works out with it.  I realize that Perp won't be for me.  Back to Eve until something better comes along.