I dont think you will like my Answer,. but its force. I think a corp/group of this fasion should be killed to extinction, this type of item farming is like a wild fire that needs to be stomped out religiously. Merc takes this role,. hero's take this role,. Vigilanty suicide ganks,. and sadly,..  griefers,..

But what your saying is move the problem to a different spawn, I dont see this as a fix,.

You continue to say this, but it's not an issue. The latest NPCs are quite a handful, and there's plenty of PvP going on already. To say that there's not enough destruction is simply wrong.

If you reduce the rewards from assignments, and increase the drops from both NPC bots and tech, then there will be quite a bit of player interaction, all of it meaningful, just not combat.

So, if I spend 50,000 EP on combat extensions, and 5000 EP on industry and harvesting, I'm not combat specialized? If you really believe this, you're splitting hairs.

Yes, I advocate this for high-level gear, but not basic items.

This is already true.

At no time did I ever write this.

This is called reductio ad absurdem, and a really poor move on your part. I never wrote such a thing, and you look like a fool for claiming it.

Exactly like the real world, isn't it? If you specialize, then you can go much further in your chosen field. If you don't specialize, you can do many more things, but none of them as well as a specialist.

Now, please try rereading, and notice I make two points:

1. Half of this is already in-game: industrialist are unable to use the gear necessary to farm high-level NPCs.

2. because only half of this is already in game, combat specialists do not have to rely in any way on industrialists: yes, having them around is very convenient, but never necessary.

3. On the other hand, industrialist characters must rely on combat specialists to provide high-level kernels and items, because they cannot gather them.

I never said they did: please reread. What I wrote was that adding PvP to the Alphas will not solve the problem of spawn camping.

Nice try, but no. Or did you forget that they get free robots? If you have 80K EP in combat extensions, it doesn't matter if you're in an Arkhe or a mech: you'll have no trouble camping spawns.

I think you need to look up "force"- people are already playing this way, but there's an imbalance between combat and non-combat characters. I'm only suggesting that the rewards be commensurate.

The example you are making hear is a combat leaning player with an smaller industrial leaning ep investment they are specialized for combat but they are not an extreme 100% combat specialist the same way a person who has 50,000 EP on industry and 5000 EP in combat they are industrial specialists with a slight lean in combat skills so they can collect lower lever kernels by themselves or higher level kernels in a group either way their respective specializations will lose out in a pure combat or pure industry scenario against someone who has invested 55k EP in combat or industry.

Pure Combat characters cannot build basic items at the efficiency that Pure Industry Characters can

This was a point I was making regarding EP and Robot fitting investments that at the extremes make you vulnerable or unable to do other things

I never said you wrote that but I suppose that I should change my statement from “cannot” to “cannot do as well as” because of the basic mining harvesting and weapons usage skills every spark receives.
But your  statement on the  your claim that 15-25 year olds seeking to ruin the game with combat is an ad hominem attack and so is calling me a fool for that matter.

People in the real world that specialized in manufacturing are now jobless. Perpetual motion does not exist in the real world and in the real world it is fully possible that I will get the hell beaten out of me for any or no reason at all at any time trying to compare a video game to the real world is comparing apples to oranges.
Regardless your point only repeats what I have already said

People that specialize face the weakness of specialization a Person who is exclusively industry must rely on other people a person who is exclusively combat must rely on an industrialists if they want better items to compete against other players and to shorten their time investment.

Industrialists are absolutely necessary to the game unless everyone sticks to lightbots and t1 gear exclusively for that reason kernels will flow to industrial specialists who have either financial or help from other players the same as t2-t4 gear will flow to combat specialized players who have the money or provide assistance to players to get said gear.

Industrialists are depended on for the following reasons; their ability to build and their ability to build efficiently which in turn reduces the time investment spent shooting NPC’s or gathering the resources necessary to build.

Time is an important factor because time exists outside of this game as a factor for doing anything there is a limited amount of time that people are alive for and as a result getting things done faster as opposed to slower and in turn giving them more time to do other things before their own lifetime is up is the most valuable commodity available to someone who isn’t suicidal or in turn possess a fetish for doing things slowly.

A combat specialist player alone will only have lightbots and t1 gear at their disposal due to npc sell orders if industrial specialist players left and industrial players alone will not be able to build higher quality gear if all the combat players left their relationship is symbiotic.

You just posted this

If pvp outside of consenual flagging is enabled on the alphas are you not saying here that the said large portion of the 15-25 year old crowd that you later refer to as gankers will ruin the game for others?

Do you have a number supporting that claim? That with the one turret that and 400 ammunition and 3.75 U of space you get on an arkhe that you will be able to camp a spawn no problem

Definitions 2 and 3

People play this way because the rules of the game force them to, patches that change game mechanics force players to play another way by definition.

A change of any in game rules are forcing players to change how they play

Basically your mining bot needs to die at some point to make mining worthwhile.  it's an endless cycle that's necessary in keeping the market central to the game.  Unlike real life things here do't wear out, get lost, become obsolete, get stolen, go out of style, etc.  They have to disappear to have a reason to create another.

If it doesn't die then it's a never ending NIC faucet.  PvP will make you more cautious which will slow your mining down and on top of that a portion of your resources may need to be dedicated to replacing your equipment.

Additionally, PvPers are at a huge disadvatage in the market because the vast majority of their resources go to replace equipment.  The majority run second accounts to just make enough to continue the part of the game they like.  Which means they are forced to pve when they dont want to (or forced into botting or RMT).  Why shouldn't you be forced to pvp when you dont want to?  You are wanting to profit off of them having to farm npcs (which is pve) because Alpha island players will rarely need your ore.

Balance is the answer, not creating two separate games.

lol, if you lose your industrial bot, you spawn also in an arkhe with two syntech mining lasers - and you can really camp a mining-field with that thing... with zero extra spent extensions.

I totally agree Other. It should be the community and the summ of all those small choices players make within their playtime that defines, reduces or increases their possibilities - not a fixed set as soon as the char is created. This contradicts sandbox idea.

"Perpetuum was built around the concept of people playing together, not simply next to each other in the same world." DEV BoyC

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … uit-codes/

The use of the word innocent unfairly paints a player that does not engage in direct combat as having the moral high ground when they are actually competing with other players on all other fields.

Yes, pity the "poor" PvP types, for they are at such a "disadvantage"... Its only "fair" that they get to gank miners and haulers... ^^  Perhaps one should note that two wrongs do not make a right? PvP types have the advantage of being combat spec, thus they can engage in PvE if necessary. Industrial types on the other hand have a HUGE disadvantage in that area.   Simply because the game dynamics require PvE, on the part of the PvP types, doesn't translate to a requirement for PvE types to have to be victims of PvP.

As far the the resource sinks go, we've discussed that any number of times.  Having Goons running around ganking miners and haulers is NOT necessary. It could be handled in other fashions.  Once again, I suspect the motivations of those who keep attempting to drag this dynamic into the Alpha game.

You suspect my motivations?  I suspect your motivations.  I think you just want a futuristic version of WoW.  Maybe you're a Chinese NIC farmer building up your reserves so that you can sell it through third party websites full of malicious software.

Try to make an intelligent argument instead of casting aspersions or STFU and let the adults talk.

kthxbye

Wraith - at some point you should stop implying griefer motives - in this entire thread theres not 1 single post pointing at that direction - its the opposite. people try to find a way to make the game less sterile, give more possibilities to each side and actually give the player possibilities without making it griefer friendly.