Savin, have you ever played Eve Online?  The structure of this game more closely resembles that than any other game. And, it's not a gankfest, but there is some ganking that happens.  With some tweaks they could easily shift the balance of secured area PVE vs PVP that would more favor the PVEers.

PVP can be effectively done in PVE areas without it being a gankfest.  Yes, it will cause the Devs to have to be proactive in managing their product but, if they aren't proactive in ALL areas of the game then it will be broken anyway.  Eve has experienced hundreds of exploits that cover everything from macro mining, pvp, the market, pve and everything else.  Exploits aren't unique to greifers and, greifers aren't unique to pvp.  If the Devs are unable to proactively manage the game then its doomed to failure anyway as plenty of non-PvP exploits will be found and need to be patched up.

The problem I see with this artificial wall between PVP and PVE is that it is extremely restrictive on the sandbox nature of the game.  It closes all kinds of opportunities for building your own playstyle that is the attraction of sandbox style games in the first place.

In its current form you have very limited options on what you can do as a "career" in game.  Mine, harvest, build stuff, PVP, or farm NPCs.  Those paths don't vary much in their application due to strict rules in place regarding player interaction.  The whole point of the sandbox style game is to have fairly loose rules that intelligent players can exploit to improve themselves.

Those exploitations can generally be measured by risk taking.  The more risk you take and the more creative your approach, the better you do.  In its current form you can either farm Alpha islands with almost zero risk or go full on combat PVP.  There isn't much of an in between, no shades of gray.

I prefer industry over combat but, I'm bored senseless if the only form of risk comes in the form of some kind of random NPC that might cross my path while mining.  Or, I can try to hop onto Beta to attempt to mine and be insta-ganked within seconds of teleporting.

With the majority of the population sitting on Alpha islands with little risk and the rest being mostly self sufficient on Beta Islands there wont be a market to speak of.  I'm limited to nothing but the constant grind of mine, harvest, build, sell (if I can actually find a buyer).

PVE content will never create enough material turn over to support any sort of market system that would be a viable career choice.  The Perpetuum market will more resemble that of WoW than a full on sandbox MMO.  PVE players for the most part know what content will cause them to lose their gear and avoid that until they've done the grind to build the equipment they need to be able to handle it.  The only option that I can see is Bind on Equip or Bind on Pick Up items like World of Warcraft.  I think everybody in this forum would agree that WoW is not a good direction to send this game.  Besides, there's a new Star Wars MMO coming out if people want WoW in space.

That wall between PVP and PVE is really only suitable to linear style MMOs like WoW.  IMHO it will break a sandbox style game at some point.  And, the less active the market the sooner it will break.

It's not a zero sum game as far as open pvp goes.  PvP elements can be mixed into 'secured' parts of the game without the greifer types dominating it.  You just have to build game mechanics that fall somewhere on the scale in between the gankfest games and Farmville.

And the PvP flag system is silly on Alpha islands.  Flagging would be the equivalent of a self destruct button.

I disagree that pvp on alpha islands isnt a legitimate solution.

Eve's business model is working fairly well for them.

The biggest complaint that i've seen in eve are the non-consensual wardecs in high security space.  There should always be nasty repercussions for non-consensual pvp in high security areas.  But, to eliminate it completely removes a large portion of the sand from the sandbox.

I think CCP could resolve the problem of needing that large of an isk sink by getting a better handle on the macro miners.

I don't feel like this game can be legitimately be called a 'sandbox' mmo if you have that total separation of the pvp and pve players.

And, like i said before, i'm not a pvper.  I rarely undocked in eve with a ship fitted with any kind of gun.  I do enjoy having to play smarter than the meatheads that enjoy greifing carebears like myself.  The unpredictability of other players being thrown into the mix of potential dangers adds a level of gameplay that no amount of programming can equal.

Maybe a lower security area would be a reasonable compromise, as long as it isn't the disaster that lowsec in Eve has become.

Here's a question...

Why is it worse to be blown up by a player rather than an NPC?

For the market to have any importance things have to break and break often.

The market has to work if you're going to be an industrialist.

If equipment and robots are not destroyed at a very fast rate by either NPCs or players then either industrialists will be a very small niche of the game, ammo will need to be very expensive and require an extensive skillset to create or, the developers will need to constantly add more and more powerful robots which, as i explained earlier is game breaking.

So, if you want industrialists to play a large role in the game, whats better, to be blown up by a player or an NPC?

I think its a great idea.  Along with a strong incentive for Beta island corps to recruit industrialists into pvp zones to support industrial equipment destruction.

The outpost idea would be a good solution for those that abhor being shot by another player but don't mind so much being shot by an NPC.

I think it would be good idea though for the outposts to produce some resources that are different than what is produced in regular Alpha zones or Beta zones.  And, the same for the others.  That way each play style will be important for a complete supply chain.

Really, if you think about it, in realistic terms, how reasonable is it to have a tenth of your corp playing a support role in combat operations?  In a realistic setting you would have ten times the support personnel than actual combatants.

This would go a long way in solving the problem of 85% of the population hanging out on Alpha islands.  Currently there's no need for em on Beta.

Oops... Double posted

If the skill sets required to play the industrialist/economic side of the game were more EP intensive and pvpers had no prayer of manufacturing their own equipment without the help of specialized industrialists then pvp corps would by necessity need the other players to be viable.

Success should be determined by who can cripple the other economically first.  If you can't field the proper equipment and robots your chances of winning will be extremely limited.

Nerfed random drops from higher end NPCs would limit cash flow to PVPers.  Simultaneously you would need to increase the reward for high end combat assignments so that the PVE side wouldn't take a hit at the same time.

Additionally it should consume more resources and manufactured components to build high end mechs and equipment.  On top of that there should be more resources that are limited to only Beta Islands so that it would be necessary for PVP corps to have (and protect) their industrial arms in Beta Island areas.

First of all i'm not a combat oriented player.  I generally go with market pvp, gathering and manufacturing.

It seems that the options everybody is giving here are all zero sum.  Either Alpha zones are 100% pve or 100% pvp.  The idea that some elements of pvp can't be mixed into the Alpha island portion of the game without greifers exploiting it to the point it breaks the game is flawed.

Eve is intentially developed to allow greifers to ruin pure pve players days, otherwise non-consual war decs in high sec space wouldn't be allowed.  This game and the intertwining of pve and pvp play doesn't need to be, nor should it be Eve.

Without mixing the two, both on Alpha and Beta islands, you end up with pure resource grinds on Alpha and a FPS on Betas.

The developers will never be able to write enough code to create the complexities that fully involved player interaction can create.  Complexity and specialization is the key to making the game experience more immersive and complete.

To boil it all down i compare Perp to Eve.  In Eve, player interaction almost always favors the pure pvp players no matter the location.  Perpetuum could design game mechanics that still allow pvp interaction on Alpha islands but would lean toward the pve players by minimizing the opportunities for this interaction and allowing the pve players more opportunity for escape or success.

I simply favor the sandbox nature of the game without strict limitations to playstyle.  Also i feel that risk is important to adding to meaningful game play.  I would rather succes for pve players in game be defined by intelligent gameplay and not by who has the constitution to sit in one spot and grind assignments or gather resources for hours on end.

To say that these type of game mechanics can't be accomplished because the greifers will always be one step ahead of the developers is flawed logic.  By eliminating non-consensual war decs in high sec space (and to some extent neutral remote reps) CCP could completely change the dynamic of pve play in Eve.  The fact that greifers have almost free rein in Eve is not due to greifers being more intelligent than the devs... It's an intentional mechanic by CCP to force people out of high sec and into pvp play.