1

(2 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

It appears that if you were to just close your client instead of using the logout-function your character remains online in chat channels.
If you were to open a private conversation with those characters the expected message is going to tell you that they are offline.
Relogging removes those ghosts from your client.

Seems like unless someone logs off properly other clients don't get told that he did so.

2

(17 replies, posted in General discussion)

Observers only drop tier 3 items.
What we use for intrusions depends on what we expect our enemy to do. Speed and longrange fittings that rely on superior mobility are likely to have Kains equipped with those guns among their ranks. Since they happen to be the fastest mechs in the game they are also the least likely to die.

Note to self: Don't enter Norhoop in a Kain, everyone will come running after you to loot your guns...

3

(268 replies, posted in General discussion)

Dromsex wrote:

Exactly Arga - just a little common sense was needed. Generating money out of thin air cannot work.

Actually, money is usually being generated out of thin air, in games an irl alike, as it is not some sort of natural resource, it's an abstract concept. That aside, it's not like someone pushed a button and NIC rained down from the sky into our wallets. Materials needed to be either mined or bought and hauled, the bots needed to be produced and then blown up. All of those are profoundly boring and tedious tasks so it feld pretty much like every other PvE activity in the game.

As for common sense: We had the DEVs confirm to us that it was OK to use insurance in that way. What else could we have done? Just decide to not play the game the way the DEVs themselves told us it is intended? It's not like your alliance ever decided to not blob us when they could just because it's kind of lame.

Dromsex wrote:

On friday a infestation guy in the german channel even announced that they would need  to "take care" of their large amount of sequers if the exploit still worked so ...

On friday, heh? Let me quote that just for you.

Log starting: 2212-02-09 18:44:46
[...]
[19:02:25] <Redline> andersherum: gewissen dinge zu veröffentlichen ist der beste weg dafür zu sorgen dass sie abgestellt/geändert werden
[19:03:24] <Michael J Caboose> ich frag mich warum CRM nicht auf insurance exploit reagiert hat. die tools sowas zu erkennen haben sie ja
[19:03:37] <bureaucracy> Immerhin wurde das alles getestet und behoben, sodass du heute nicht befürchten musst, beim minern auf den Alpha-Inseln auf irgendwelche komödiantischen Weisen in die Luft zu fliegen
[19:03:54] <bureaucracy> Sie brauchen keine tools, wir haben es ihnen gesagt, mehrmals
[19:04:09] <bureaucracy> Da kam nur sowas wie "Warum würdet ihr eure eigenen Bots sprengen?" zurück
[19:04:43] <bureaucracy> Irgendwann scheint es aber doch durchgedrungen zu sein, dass da was gefixt werden muss
[19:05:22] <Michael J Caboose> scheint aber nicht sehr geholfen zu haben wie ich gehört hab
[19:05:42] <Michael J Caboose> oder schönigt da einer nur seine statistik mit sequern?
[19:06:23] <bureaucracy> Ehrlich gesagt weiß ich nicht, wieviel weniger sinnvoll es jetzt geworden ist, da wir das eine Weile nicht mehr gemacht haben
[19:06:56] <Michael J Caboose> mein infostand ist... gestern
[19:07:55] <bureaucracy> Schätze dann geht es noch
[19:08:13] <bureaucracy> Müssten uns bei gelegenheit der paar hundert Sequer annehmen, die da noch rumliegen

That's the very same sequers that are up for sale at Nauwy right now. Just so you know how much we cared about all of this. Like I said, boring and tedious busywork.

Dromsex wrote:

Glimpse, apart from trolling your a reasonable guy. I understand that the current outcome wasnt expected. Im surte neither the DEVs expected such big numbers, so.

Arga and you might even have a point there, but in order for it to be true the DEVs would need to be exceptionally naive. If EvE has shown us anything, then it's that everything that can conceivably be done on a ridiculously large scale will be done like that if there is any benefit to be gained. Like CCP didn't ever expect to have more than about 5 Titans in the game because it's so much effort to get those. Now they are everywhere.
If you get told that there is something exploitable in your game and you respond to it by stating that it's ok to do so because you secretly assume that no one is going to use it, then you're just... not very clever.

4

(268 replies, posted in General discussion)

Dromsex wrote:

Insurance fraud is not a creative way tu use game mechanics - its a major exploit in this game and you got caught. Thats what these threads are about.

See, that is exactly the point. We didn't get caught. We told the Devs in personal convos that implementing any kind of insurance mechanic would lead to it being exploited, therefor it would be a bad idea to do so. They however were confident that their method to calculate and adjust the payouts would prevent that. Later we told them how it is being used, how much profit is being gained by doing so and that we are doing it right now. At no point did they ever state that they do not want us or anyone to use it in this way. Had they done so all of this would be a completely different story.
Perpetuum Online is Avatar Creation's game, hence it is entirely up to them to determine what the rules are. Up until now their approach to exploits, bugs and questionable game mechanics wasn't to cry to people about how they shouldn't be using them until they come around to do something about it, they just went and fixed it as quickly as possible. That is an admirable attitude and it shows that if something goes wrong, they accept responsibility for it and implement an immediate solution.
If we tell them in great detail that a certain game mechanic is being used in a way that deviates from it's seemingly intended purpose and all they have to say to it is that it's working as intended, then that's how it is.
Lots of different games have entirely different rules. While in some games, I remember that being the case with SWG years ago, you could get banned if you disturbed someone who was using a macro to afk-grind. You could also get banned for scamming. EvE however does not punish anyone for scamming as it is exactly the kind of feel they want to have in their sandbox MMO. If you use macros however you will get banned for it.

Speaking of EvE, this entire affair reminds me a lot of the ferrogel scandal. The difference however is that CCP was unaware for several years that it was happening and it was a very obvious item dupe, things appeared out of nothing. Once they did find out, players who were engaging in it got banned. CCP has taken great care to backtrack what happened and tried very hard not to punish anyone who may not have been actually involved with it, however seeing as EvE is one of those games where lots of account sharing, especially in the logistic and production department happens, this wasn't an easy task. Yet after the initial ban wave several people got unbanned which is an impressive display of lenience as account sharing is an EULA violation in itself. They have removed corp assets that have been purchased using ISK gained from this exploit and left the rest alone.
Something CCP never did was release a list of people who did any of this. The reason some corps/alliances were known to be involved in this was someone hacking their forums and publishing it.

Let's compare this to how it was handled here. The DEVs have been warned before they put the mechanic in the game, they knew it was happening once it was in the game and reassured to us that there is nothing wrong with it. Now they suddenly turn around, declare it an exploit in retrospect, wipe NIC off accounts almost at random (later admitting to having punished the wrong person and returning the NIC) and point fingers at the very same people who have been telling them about this issue the entire time AND who they confirmed to that it's ok.
The sole reason why we are upset about it is that it was handled in such an unprofessional way. It's not about the NIC and as we have proven to Norhoop yesterday, we are still very much operational.
While I realize that quite a bit of work from the DEVs went into the poor result we are confronted with here and approve of the fact that the flawed insurance system has been removed, it's just not good enough.
I hope something like this doesn't happen ever again, however if it does I would wish for it to be handled more competently.


Dromsex wrote:

But i understand its a new situation guys - you get caught as usual but only in this game you dont get perm banned.

We've been helping the DEVs where ever we somehow could, because we actually want to see this game succeed. That does not quite compare to what I did in Neocron, much less to what my guys started doing once I left.


Dromsex wrote:

Its funny how infestation members get cought in every game for the same thing, be it Neocron, MO and now PO.

Feel free to add EvE to that list as I happened to be in Ev0ke during the ferrogel thing. I didn't have anything to do with it, believe it or not, but I did get some insight into how it was dealt with by CCP.

Anyway, as long as the DEVs don't end up shooting themselves in the foot with issues like this, it's all gonna work out somehow. A few people got upset, we got epically trolled, moving on.

5

(268 replies, posted in General discussion)

Dromsex wrote:

Noone is covering up anything Saha. Obviously the game mechanic was created by the DEVs. They are responsible for any game mechanic or bit of coding.

But you are solely responsible for exploiting it.

I am extremely amused by the fact that someone who not only played Neocron, but also liked it enough to call himself "Dromsex" is complaining about using game mechanics in creative ways. It makes me wonder how you even managed to play it, considering that just figuring out a proper CON/Armor setup felt like exploiting faulty game mechanics.
I imagine you must have written an email to the support every time you actually got something to work, demanding that they ban you immediately as those features clearly weren't meant to be functional.

Ich sichere diesem Vorhaben meine uneingeschränkte Unterstützung zu. Alle Beiträge mit Ausnahme derer in englischer Sprache müssen umgehend aus diesem Forum entfernt werden!

An Arkhe with Nav 10 moves at 79 kph, adding a Standard Lightweight Frame accelerates it up to 99 kph.
Thats as good a scout as you will ever need if you only want to keep eyes on the enemy.
An Arkhe with 2 Lasers, a Demob and a Lightweight Frame moves at 87 kph.
It offers the firepower of an Intakt and moves fairly quickly. In fact it is quite capable of keeping pace with a fully standard fit Intakt.
The same fitting on a Prometheus would only bring you up to 76 kph.

As a result, if one were to set up a roaming gang to move around quickly, the logical choice apart from Ewar-bots are Arkhes. Not light bots, Arkhes.
Not only do they simply outperform light bots in terms of mobility, they are also free.
Instead of just being inferior to every other bot in the game, it actually ended up being a versatile hybrid between light bots and Ewar-bots. While there is nothing inherently wrong with having a bot like that in the game, it should not be free.

Prevent Arkhes from fitting anything other than Syntec equipment and limit their top speed to 50 kph.
If you really want to have something like the current Arkhe in the game, just keep the MK2-Version as it is and make it manufacturable at 65% of the material value of an Ewar-bot.