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Zoom, I have a question about how this is gonna be implemented. Are you going to wipe all our existing sparks when the change is made and we will have to reset them according to what our SpT is trained to at the time, or do you have something else planned? I'm just curious how much preparation I need to do ahead of time before this change goes into affect. Thanks!
Yup, because after the change it is about choices.
I am glad you finally understand.
derp
DEV Zoom wrote:Development time has nothing to do with it, it's a simply a design choice. SpT is really not something that you can't live without in the game, given that some of you even want to remove it. Sure it becomes more and more useful as you advance in the game, but Alpha traders having a hard time with the change? The only change they will see is that they will need 2 slots for the Alpha2 terminals instead of 1, hardly game breaking. Newbies leaving because they can't wait until they get the extension to 6? Oh come on.
Here is an example. Let it be my corp have both vets and newbies, a newbies that are already involved in PvP, just not that strong etc. Most of newbies didn't even leveled that ext higher than 5 - it wasn't necessary cuz they had 1 spark at gamma, 1 at alpha-2 and 3 at betas. Soubds good in terms of defending, BUT! Now you're telling us that SpT change imminent. What will happen to them? By new rules, lvl 5 is only enough for 1 gamma and 1 beta - bad choice, as there is nothing to do on gammas and betas if no pvp. Or, they could go 1 beta and 1-2 alpha - bad choice aswell, cuz we want them to be able to defend a gamma base cuz it's most expensive thing in the game. Oh, maybe they could go 1 alpha and 1 gamma instead? Bad choice again, cuz with that crappy sap mechanics we want ppl to defend saps and prevent ninja rats too - and with that change is coming, attacks on saps will just increase.
So they had to choose, and maybe that's fine. But guess what - we will force them to make it beta and gamma, no matter they got bored as hell and stop playing. Tell you more - every newbie that will join us, will be forced to do the same right after he gets at lvl 5. And yes they will be bored as hell and leave too.
Have such example ever came into your mind?
ilum: we won't remove the spark targets, you will have to do it if necessary. As long as the occupied slot number is above your limit you won't be able to use spark teleports.
cool, that's what I needed to know. Thanks. 
That took 1/2 day to catch up.
There's a lot of personal analogies about how and why they use SpT in this thread, the simple point isn't how it's being used, but how it could and eventually will be used.
The suggestion of a timer was made in that other thread, but since certain factions couldn't agree, you've made the devs choose slotting; which is argueably more constrictive then a timer.
In any event, doing SOMETHING here is better than nothing, and after the change they'll have more information on how this effects play, and they can adjust it again if need be.
a timer is *** as while it may make sense to someone who has had the experience before timers to someone coming after they will just be rage filled watching the meat spin screen for whatever minutes
a timer is *** as while it may make sense to someone who has had the experience before timers to someone coming after they will just be rage filled watching the meat spin screen for whatever minutes
Not an undock timer... but it's a discussion for a different time as the slot feature may resolve it just fine.
ilum: we won't remove the spark targets, you will have to do it if necessary. As long as the occupied slot number is above your limit you won't be able to use spark teleports.
So everything will work as it is now unless we will decide to change a target or two?
DEV Zoom wrote:ilum: we won't remove the spark targets, you will have to do it if necessary. As long as the occupied slot number is above your limit you won't be able to use spark teleports.
So everything will work as it is now unless we will decide to change a target or two?
lol...
No no, Hunter, that's very wise move
I've really underestimated Zoom, he is waaay smarter I've thought.
-
@ilum
regardless of EVE upping Sparks/jump clones to 10, there is still 19-24 hours delay where we have zero delay; goose egg
19-24 hours
Gunner, how long is the delay after the change?
oh thats right, still zero.
Derp. But keep gloating about winning a forum campaign. because you did indeed.
As far as this being a must have, its not. If you play roaming style PvP and don't own terminals or Gamma's you really dont need the extension above 5. People that are base building will make it higher, but it makes sense like a production guy will max his indy.
I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change. Gamma at 2 is manageable for the concerns I had. And whatever, if its the way the game is, c'est live.
DEV Zoom wrote:ilum: we won't remove the spark targets, you will have to do it if necessary. As long as the occupied slot number is above your limit you won't be able to use spark teleports.
So everything will work as it is now unless we will decide to change a target or two?
Zoom said -> As long as the occupied slot number is above your limit you won't be able to use spark teleports.
Right... Sorry Zoom, it seems that my first thought was more correct.
I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change.
How do you know you don't like the change?
According to expert testimony, it's impossible for someone who hasn't played with the mechanics to have any valid input, and since no one has played with the yet to be implemented changes, your opinion is worthless.
Or it's possible to reason with available data and form conclusions.
The good news here is that because SOMETHING changed, it's possible to say what it improved and what was made worse, and give the devs feedback so they can tweak it again. That's the job of the people currently playing, to give feedback on changes.
Doing nothing results in nothing.
Cassius wrote:I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change.
How do you know you don't like the change?
According to expert testimony, it's impossible for someone who hasn't played with the mechanics to have any valid input, and since no one has played with the yet to be implemented changes, your opinion is worthless.
Or it's possible to reason with available data and form conclusions.
The good news here is that because SOMETHING changed, it's possible to say what it improved and what was made worse, and give the devs feedback so they can tweak it again. That's the job of the people currently playing, to give feedback on changes.
Doing nothing results in nothing.
I usually like your posts. This one is out of left field though.
I don't like the change based on what currently is and what will be.
Also are you currently playing?
I believe the answer is no. So, if you listen to yourself in your post I am quoting, you need to stfu.
It needs a delay here, but I'll take what I can get.
I'm not gloating, this is the tip of the iceburg of changes needed.
If I had my way, sparks would be gone and blood would be more restricted. but meh
Gunner wrote:@ilum
regardless of EVE upping Sparks/jump clones to 10, there is still 19-24 hours delay where we have zero delay; goose egg
19-24 hours
Gunner, how long is the delay after the change?
oh thats right, still zero.
Derp. But keep gloating about winning a forum campaign. because you did indeed.
As far as this being a must have, its not. If you play roaming style PvP and don't own terminals or Gamma's you really dont need the extension above 5. People that are base building will make it higher, but it makes sense like a production guy will max his indy.
I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change. Gamma at 2 is manageable for the concerns I had. And whatever, if its the way the game is, c'est live.
Arga wrote:Cassius wrote:I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change.
How do you know you don't like the change?
According to expert testimony, it's impossible for someone who hasn't played with the mechanics to have any valid input, and since no one has played with the yet to be implemented changes, your opinion is worthless.
Or it's possible to reason with available data and form conclusions.
The good news here is that because SOMETHING changed, it's possible to say what it improved and what was made worse, and give the devs feedback so they can tweak it again. That's the job of the people currently playing, to give feedback on changes.
Doing nothing results in nothing.
I usually like your posts. This one is out of left field though.
I don't like the change based on what currently is and what will be.
Also are you currently playing?
I believe the answer is no. So, if you listen to yourself in your post I am quoting, you need to stfu.
Audience mismatch again.
What I was saying, is that it is possible to have an opinion "I don't like the proposed change" even though it has not been implemented, because humans are capable of using reasoning to predict future events. Your post just happened to have the seed idea that I needed to portray that reasoning. I don't need to be playing, that is experiencing the current mechanic, to know that the way it is implemented is bad.
Sorry you got caught up in my metaphor.
Edit - grmmers
Arga, pants on head coalition is gifted with extra chromosomes.
Arga, pants on head coalition is gifted with extra chromosomes.
Conventional wisdom says more would be better, but it's just special.
Arga wrote:Cassius wrote:I personally do not think it will do anything towards fixing the original "its broken because" and I don't like the change.
How do you know you don't like the change?
According to expert testimony, it's impossible for someone who hasn't played with the mechanics to have any valid input, and since no one has played with the yet to be implemented changes, your opinion is worthless.
Or it's possible to reason with available data and form conclusions.
The good news here is that because SOMETHING changed, it's possible to say what it improved and what was made worse, and give the devs feedback so they can tweak it again. That's the job of the people currently playing, to give feedback on changes.
Doing nothing results in nothing.
I usually like your posts. This one is out of left field though.
I don't like the change based on what currently is and what will be.
Also are you currently playing?
I believe the answer is no. So, if you listen to yourself in your post I am quoting, you need to stfu.
Usually when he plays you get very busy playing something else for 2-3 weeks.
Boo.
That oughta do it, you may resume posting in 2-3 weeks.
Atticus wrote:Arga wrote:How do you know you don't like the change?
According to expert testimony, it's impossible for someone who hasn't played with the mechanics to have any valid input, and since no one has played with the yet to be implemented changes, your opinion is worthless.
Or it's possible to reason with available data and form conclusions.
The good news here is that because SOMETHING changed, it's possible to say what it improved and what was made worse, and give the devs feedback so they can tweak it again. That's the job of the people currently playing, to give feedback on changes.
Doing nothing results in nothing.
I usually like your posts. This one is out of left field though.
I don't like the change based on what currently is and what will be.
Also are you currently playing?
I believe the answer is no. So, if you listen to yourself in your post I am quoting, you need to stfu.Usually when he plays you get very busy playing something else for 2-3 weeks.
Boo.
That oughta do it, you may resume posting in 2-3 weeks.
Yes because Arga is a combat juggernaught. Fear his demobbing Riv MK II.
Oops I posted too soon.
Norrdec wrote:Atticus wrote:I usually like your posts. This one is out of left field though.
I don't like the change based on what currently is and what will be.
Also are you currently playing?
I believe the answer is no. So, if you listen to yourself in your post I am quoting, you need to stfu.Usually when he plays you get very busy playing something else for 2-3 weeks.
Boo.
That oughta do it, you may resume posting in 2-3 weeks.
Yes because Arga is a combat juggernaught. Fear his demobbing Riv MK II.
Oops I posted too soon.
>.>
<.<
Zenith MK II on Alt - but technically its still not combat 
Atticus wrote:Norrdec wrote:Usually when he plays you get very busy playing something else for 2-3 weeks.
Boo.
That oughta do it, you may resume posting in 2-3 weeks.
Yes because Arga is a combat juggernaught. Fear his demobbing Riv MK II.
Oops I posted too soon.>.>
<.<Zenith MK II on Alt - but technically its still not combat
Login moar!
Arga wrote:Atticus wrote:Yes because Arga is a combat juggernaught. Fear his demobbing Riv MK II.
Oops I posted too soon.>.>
<.<Zenith MK II on Alt - but technically its still not combat
Login moar!
I'm hoping to see more old faces. Especially now i've seen the comment from Resentina ...
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