Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Even projecting from Alpha is better than the current system as it is.

If I had my way, there would just be blood sparks like it used to be.

Prior to spt, perp felt like a large world and moving required decisions to be made about time and other concerns like, if we moved from Alpha, opponents have the opportunity to see you moving or disrupt or scan or whatever.

That simple thing, above, is a small example of an in-game movement that doesnt exist when people insta-project.





Burial wrote:

First we should all figure out what the exact problems are and why.

If it's power projection then that can be guided from Alphas too. If it's detector sight seeing from Beta terminal then that aswell can be guided from Alpha meaning Alphas should be just as restrictive to Spark as Betas(but is it worth it?).

If devs think that newbies have too hard time getting and living on Beta then that sounds like a balancing issue.

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

for real, just be done with it and can them.

Canthra Monero wrote:

I am with shadow remove sparks from betas

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gunner wrote:

The point is players will have to choose, project power to beta or wherever vs. logistics sparks in gamma or wherever.

So we are forcing players to decide if they want to do indy stuff, or pvp? Seems like a good idea. We have way too much pvp going on now anyways.... Could that be because your corp doesn't do indy stuff? Hmmm...

Remove the ability to spark to beta at all. That's my vote.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

You cant be everywhere all the time anytime.

Yes, you have to choose.

Could you imagine what it would be like in EVE if each player could instantly move to 10 systems at any time with no thought.

Think about that; and that world has thousands of systems.  We have 36.

You guys just dont get the fundamental idea here, pretty much at all.

You 100% dont get it.


Shadowmine wrote:
Gunner wrote:

The point is players will have to choose, project power to beta or wherever vs. logistics sparks in gamma or wherever.

So we are forcing players to decide if they want to do indy stuff, or pvp? Seems like a good idea. We have way too much pvp going on now anyways.... Could that be because your corp doesn't do indy stuff? Hmmm...

Remove the ability to spark to beta at all. That's my vote.

355 (edited by Gunner 2013-11-17 23:51:12)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

If you want instant action, play World of Tanks.


Here, you are going to have to start thinking and planning, and yes, sometimes decide to make logistics more easy or PvP more easy, but it is your choice.

356

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Shadowmine wrote:
Gunner wrote:

The point is players will have to choose, project power to beta or wherever vs. logistics sparks in gamma or wherever.

So we are forcing players to decide if they want to do indy stuff, or pvp? Seems like a good idea. We have way too much pvp going on now anyways.... Could that be because your corp doesn't do indy stuff? Hmmm...

Remove the ability to spark to beta at all. That's my vote.

Interesting since the first thing you do when you play the game on day one is make a toon and choose indy/combat/or support.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

The problem then becomes, if I choose to do indy. You have no one to shoot.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gunner wrote:

Even projecting from Alpha is better than the current system as it is.

If I had my way, there would just be blood sparks like it used to be.

Prior to spt, perp felt like a large world and moving required decisions to be made about time and other concerns like, if we moved from Alpha, opponents have the opportunity to see you moving or disrupt or scan or whatever.

That simple thing, above, is a small example of an in-game movement that doesnt exist when people insta-project.





Burial wrote:

First we should all figure out what the exact problems are and why.

If it's power projection then that can be guided from Alphas too. If it's detector sight seeing from Beta terminal then that aswell can be guided from Alpha meaning Alphas should be just as restrictive to Spark as Betas(but is it worth it?).

If devs think that newbies have too hard time getting and living on Beta then that sounds like a balancing issue.

Back then the map was a lot different. There were a lot more connections and teleport chains and you got from one part of the world to another fast. With Gamma, the network lost a lot of the chain connections and movement between Alphas and Betas(not to mention Gammas!) is a immensely more painful. Spark Teleporting just for the sake of saving time is essential when you already have to move close to an hour if you want to haul something.

Force projection from Alpha is not a lot different than force projection from Beta. Alpha2 is directly connected to both of the Betas so you don't even really need an interzone.

I agree that Spark Teleports should be removed since there's just no way to balance them against everything(different playstyles, different ambitions and so on), but if that were to happen then:
- Teleport beacons need a buff.
- Alpha needs more connections.
I've suggested all of those many times, feels like going in circles. You feel the same? smile

359 (edited by Gunner 2013-11-17 23:57:11)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

not if you want Eppy...

Shadowmine wrote:

The problem then becomes, if I choose to do indy. You have no one to shoot.

360 (edited by Gunner 2013-11-18 00:00:25)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I dont care about the travel layout.

If I want to move a group or a guy, I'll use Tellys and Interzones. The lower interzone price helps us here.

If it isnt worth the time or the money, then that is a CHOICE that I make.






Burial wrote:
Gunner wrote:

Even projecting from Alpha is better than the current system as it is.

If I had my way, there would just be blood sparks like it used to be.

Prior to spt, perp felt like a large world and moving required decisions to be made about time and other concerns like, if we moved from Alpha, opponents have the opportunity to see you moving or disrupt or scan or whatever.

That simple thing, above, is a small example of an in-game movement that doesnt exist when people insta-project.





Burial wrote:

First we should all figure out what the exact problems are and why.

If it's power projection then that can be guided from Alphas too. If it's detector sight seeing from Beta terminal then that aswell can be guided from Alpha meaning Alphas should be just as restrictive to Spark as Betas(but is it worth it?).

If devs think that newbies have too hard time getting and living on Beta then that sounds like a balancing issue.

Back then the map was a lot different. There were a lot more connections and teleport chains and you got from one part of the world to another fast. With Gamma, the network lost a lot of the chain connections and movement between Alphas and Betas(not to mention Gammas!) is a immensely more painful. Spark Teleporting just for the sake of saving time is essential when you already have to move close to an hour if you want to haul something.

Force projection from Alpha is not a lot different than force projection from Beta. Alpha2 is directly connected to both of the Betas so you don't even really need an interzone.

I agree that Spark Teleports should be removed since there's just no way to balance them against everything(different playstyles, different ambitions and so on), but if that were to happen then:
- Teleport beacons need a buff.
- Alpha needs more connections.
I've suggested all of those many times, feels like going in circles. You feel the same? smile

361

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

I agree that Spark Teleports should be removed since there's just no way to balance them against everything(different playstyles, different ambitions and so on), but if that were to happen then:
- Teleport beacons need a buff.
- Alpha needs more connections.
I've suggested all of those many times, feels like going in circles. You feel the same? smile

First time in along time I agree with ya Burial.

Lower the size of standard to 1U leave
Decrease the CD of Emergency
Increase the CD and interval of Armored
Add a second Interzone mid sized and mid ranged
Add a TP receiver Module Head slot that makes a signal for TP's to Jump to when activated bot gets  stuck in place for 5 mins and costs plasma to turn on.

Re-introduce the triangle Alpha 1s

Allow 2 sparks only 1 Alpha and 1 Gamma.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

362 (edited by Gunner 2013-11-18 00:06:53)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

*cough*  add deployable tele-interrupters..   *cough*




a fight to be fought later  tongue

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Lobo wrote:

Add a TP receiver Module Head slot that makes a signal for TP's to Jump to when activated bot gets  stuck in place for 5 mins and costs plasma to turn on.

Hot drop O'Clock ? smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

364 (edited by Burial 2013-11-18 00:09:11)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gunner, it actually was suggested not long ago. Additionally, I would like it so that module can be used on both beacons and players. That would be sweet. TELEBLOCK! big_smile

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

You know, it still shocks me that EVE has 5 or so sparks and there is a delay of 19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use



Seriously, and we are discussing the validity of 10 sparks with unlimited use in 36 islands


lol, ridiculous

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Canthra Monero wrote:
Estamel Tharch0n wrote:
Burial wrote:

I understand something needs to be done with Sparks, I've said it many times.

But if the real issue is sparking around Betas and the suggested patch messes up most of the Gamma operations while only minorly affecting Beta and power projection while few really noticing it, it makes me worried.

Everything aside, can you answer my questions?

// Ville, that's good for you. Whenever I need a laugh like that, I look at this thread: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -comrades/


So what do u think is better as a change?
I think zoom said clerly that he was looking for a solution! smile)


But, it is a "problem" that you created or claimed was an issue for personal reasons. It can be left the way is it and not touched at all.


Its not a problem we created its a REAL issue whit the game now get over it and stopp posting usless stuff that does not add any thing but morre usless tears to this thred

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I'm in

Burial wrote:

Gunner, it actually was suggested not long ago. Additionally, I would like it so that module can be used on both beacons and players. That would be sweet. TELEBLOCK! big_smile

368 (edited by Burial 2013-11-18 00:17:11)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gunner wrote:

You know, it still shocks me that EVE has 5 or so sparks and there is a delay of 19-24 hours per use

On the surface, they might look very similar games and that could make one believe that similar rules should apply to them, but when you consider that EVE regions(could even say constellations) usually have everything in them a player needs and Perpetuum islands don't, then you realise they are very different.

For example, in a random region in EVE you can do everything from building to doing PVP and combat. On the other hand, Perpetuum has islands with very specific meanings and that pushes people to move back and forth more.

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

First we should all figure out what the exact problems are and why.

If it's power projection then that can be guided from Alphas too. If it's detector sight seeing from Beta terminal then that aswell can be guided from Alpha meaning Alphas should be just as restrictive to Spark as Betas(but is it worth it?).

If devs think that newbies have too hard time getting and living on Beta then that sounds like a balancing issue.

Gunner wrote:

The point is players will have to choose, project power to beta or wherever vs. logistics sparks in gamma or wherever.

You have lost touch with the game. Most of the players I know do the Gamma stuff and logistics stuff to build bots and PVP. It's not particularily fun to sit on the fields and mine but you do what you got to do to compete.

What exactly makes you think they should choose between doing the necessity tasks(mining, production) and what the necessity tasks are for(pvp)? What you said basically gets repeatedly thrown around without anyone giving any solid explanations.


No one said the new mechanic was perfect but its a good step in the very right direction.

I think you have lost touch with the game.
The rest of us that dont have gamma bases do just fine on bulding on alpha i dont relly see the problem...
we even have to compete for those resources
Gammas have noraglis farm by 100s of plants protected by a wall of guns, bonused factory, CT labs, and Decoder labs and w/e else.   Not to mention abbility to place mining outposts near mineral fields that are good
and near 100% safety mining

Sure after epi changes Gammas arent as valuable as before but that does not mean SpT wasent Overpowered.

370 (edited by Blocker 2013-11-18 00:39:54)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Lobo wrote:
Burial wrote:

I agree that Spark Teleports should be removed since there's just no way to balance them against everything(different playstyles, different ambitions and so on), but if that were to happen then:
- Teleport beacons need a buff.
- Alpha needs more connections.
I've suggested all of those many times, feels like going in circles. You feel the same? smile

First time in along time I agree with ya Burial.

Lower the size of standard to 1U leave
Decrease the CD of Emergency
Increase the CD and interval of Armored
Add a second Interzone mid sized and mid ranged
Add a TP receiver Module Head slot that makes a signal for TP's to Jump to when activated bot gets  stuck in place for 5 mins and costs plasma to turn on.

Re-introduce the triangle Alpha 1s

Allow 2 sparks only 1 Alpha and 1 Gamma.

Maybe the problem can be solved by re-jigging the TP system and do away with sparks altogether ?
Have a TP that only works internally and deposits you at a random location, min 500m max 750m from a station ? With all the current attributes of a TP, ie cool down/warm up etc
Maybe we need to look outside the box a bit so we can have some sort of compromise that most players are at least half happy with.
Would be better than this "my way or the highway" attitude some seem to be projecting. That was not directed at your post Lobo.. It was good to see something different suggested..
[EDIT} Thanks for the link below Burial, be nice to know what zoom thinks of those ideas..

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … teleports/

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Travel time is also a REAL issue with this game. So removing SpT without helping movement somehow is crazy. But whatever fix is done must not take the addition of new items as there arent the resources to allocate to developing such a thing until after steam at best. So while all these ideas are great, they don't do anything to further the discussion at hand.

Removing sparks from all betas will make the relatively few beta islands we have seem much larger. They will also require players to actively live at their beta outposts as you will have to drive out there for sap attacks AND defences. It will REMOVE all instant power projection except a blood spark location. It will make betas the roamable landscape everyone wants. It will entice people in fact to live there without fear of instadeath.

This seems to me like the easiest solution that will offer the most benefit to the main complaints that people have.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.

You could reduce the spark teleport locations to 5 with spark teleport 10 skill if you really still felt the need to swing the nerf hammer.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

The devs shuld just remove the walking btw alpha teleports increase molecular (what ever the thing is called) so it takes longer to re jump saves evry one whit walking time might be alittle to fast maybe
Keep highways for outposts and stations

Altho some how i dont think its a good idea

374 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-11-18 01:43:41)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gunner wrote:

You know, it still shocks me that EVE has 5 or so sparks and there is a delay of 19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use

19-24 hours per use



Seriously, and we are discussing the validity of 10 sparks with unlimited use in 36 islands


lol, ridiculous


Actually on that note CCP last i heard was looking to drop the cool down timer, down from 24 hours to something like 9-12 i think.



Shadowmine wrote:

Travel time is also a REAL issue with this game. So removing SpT without helping movement somehow is crazy. But whatever fix is done must not take the addition of new items as there arent the resources to allocate to developing such a thing until after steam at best. So while all these ideas are great, they don't do anything to further the discussion at hand.

Removing sparks from all betas will make the relatively few beta islands we have seem much larger. They will also require players to actively live at their beta outposts as you will have to drive out there for sap attacks AND defences. It will REMOVE all instant power projection except a blood spark location. It will make betas the roamable landscape everyone wants. It will entice people in fact to live there without fear of instadeath.

This seems to me like the easiest solution that will offer the most benefit to the main complaints that people have.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.

You could reduce the spark teleport locations to 5 with spark teleport 10 skill if you really still felt the need to swing the nerf hammer.

Heres what i think should happen to help travel time:

1. Make Highways go right to the TP, having them stop short at random distances is silly.
2. Boost the speed buff Highways give.
3. Make Highways continuouse from their start point to the end destination so many Highways are in sections with  gaps of many 100s of Meters between the next section. This is stupid & unnecessary.
4. The DEVs have the movement maps for all the islands please use them to locate the best routes for Highways to be in.
5. Bring Highways to ALL Beta islands BUT make them a bonus that a station owner can turn on & off. Each player Outpost would control a section of Highways on an island. see my link for an example (actually ill just make a new thread & link it later smile  ).

6. Allow players to build Highways on gamma T1 T2 T3 Make them consume LOTS of power
7. Reinstate TP connections between the Alpha 1 islands
8. Some how Auto pilot needs to defer to use of Highways. Or have little Syntec arkhes go up & down all the alpha Highs at a set speed that people can just put on follow smile

I think the above would be a great improvement to the transportation system. i personally am against further use of mobile teleporters. These should be a luxury item not a must have to get around the game. the way these are used so much shows to me that the transportation network as a whole in this game needs some more fine tuning.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Lobo wrote:
Burial wrote:

I agree that Spark Teleports should be removed since there's just no way to balance them against everything(different playstyles, different ambitions and so on), but if that were to happen then:
- Teleport beacons need a buff.
- Alpha needs more connections.
I've suggested all of those many times, feels like going in circles. You feel the same? smile

First time in along time I agree with ya Burial.

Lower the size of standard to 1U leave
Decrease the CD of Emergency
Increase the CD and interval of Armored
Add a second Interzone mid sized and mid ranged
Add a TP receiver Module Head slot that makes a signal for TP's to Jump to when activated bot gets  stuck in place for 5 mins and costs plasma to turn on.

Re-introduce the triangle Alpha 1s

Allow 2 sparks only 1 Alpha and 1 Gamma.


Woah - I like all of this.     Especially with Teleblockers.     May take some tweaking - but sign me and my alts up for voting on this poll.