126 Reply by Ludlow Bursar (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2013-09-04 20:45:57)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

The active ECCM seems like a quick fix rather than a proper solution. You are not removing epriton from gamma yet so why not spend the intervening time to develop a less narrow, less esoteric solution in favour of a more radical one.

There seems to be resistance from Devs to a despawn timer on untouched raw material fields and restricting their spawn positions to not under NPCs would leave either too few places, is too difficult to implement or both.

So how about a wholesale rethink of static spawns? Get rid of them and replace them with random static spawns that persist for a short time. Ok, so you need static spawns for assignments but why do they need to be there if no-one running that assignment is in the area?

127 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-04 21:01:45)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Zoom, I would seriously consider if there's a change needed at all. A spawn on beta island could easily kill the tanked riveler/termis if combat bots are not present to take care of the spawn, not to mention there are other kinds of EW that hurt the miner just as much(neuts etc).

Don't worry about the spawns. If people need Epriton they will go and get it. Sure, jamms are bad but so is DPS and neuts and not to mention getting your mining bot ganked.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Arga wrote:

If its' a mission, then as I pointed out, better off using a combat bot.

That may be true, then again missions usually don't ask that much minerals anyway.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Yea, tbh some sort of defense against a spam of ewar turrets may not be a terrible thing... Even if only for non combatants..

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

And like Burial said, A great big fat red field of Epriton will make people do amazing things....

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

What about giving npc spawns on beta a targeting priority for combat bots. So as long as there are combats bots nearby the indy bots wont get targetd?

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Or just make sure there are more epi fields on beta than there are static spawns?

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

I think this is a bad idea for the simple fact that this will take the resources away from the little corps and make them only able to be ubtained by the big ones. And eventually with the spawn being random for the field eventually all the fields could be locked under a NPC spawn. Making it even harder for the smaller groups to get needed matierials and making the market become unbelieveablly high for said materials. Making having a Gamma Island not worth it.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Mining epriton is not and never has been the only reason for having a gamma outpost.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Simple question : you should ask yourself if Npc on minerals field will add "FUN" for the players ?

Yes, i used the word "FUN".

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

It's really just a quick idea that we could make in a few hours to make it a bit better. Removing static spawns in favor of roaming ones, reprogramming the whole mineral spawning system to have actual fields sensitive to NPCs and whatnot, are all changes that have widespread consequences and take months to develop.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

I think it is worth doing. If it becomes a problem where all fields are underneath npcs. Someone can put in a ticket and just restart server and move fields or something? Worst case? But personnaly I don't think it will be that big of a problem long term.

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138 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-04 21:11:51)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Active ECCM mod won't really help much there. You can test it out with taking your tanked Termis or Riveler under an NPC spawn and start mining/sit there. You will die unless you have combat bots nearby to protect you, not to mention wouldn't it be better to have guarded mining operations in PVP zone anyway?

If you find a field that's not under NPC spawn, which is like that most of the time, you can freely ninja mine it.

139 Reply by Arga

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

DEV Zoom wrote:

It's really just a quick idea that we could make in a few hours to make it a bit better. Removing static spawns in favor of roaming ones, reprogramming the whole mineral spawning system to have actual fields sensitive to NPCs and whatnot, are all changes that have widespread consequences and take months to develop.

why not just bake active eccm into mining modules, and it's only active when the module is locked on a tile.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Burial wrote:

You will die unless you have combat bots nearby to protect you, not to mention wouldn't it be better to have guarded mining operations in PVP zone anyway?

guarded mining operations for missions ?

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Whenever we had NPC spawn on a field we either stripped the field out quickly with bigger bots and combats or just moved a Vagabond or two to keep NPCs busy while we mined with Arganos.

It's not hard.

142 Reply by Martha Stuart (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-09-04 21:32:47)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

I don't think you need an active ECCM at all, STC ran into this problem when we were running missions on Norhoop,  you corral the NPC's inside a box of walls.  We did it all the time, its not hard, just takes about an hour to do.  No biggie.  Its not like all the Beta islands are gonna have every field under a NPC spawns.  Adapt and survive.

143 Reply by Heliaso (edited by Heliaso 2013-09-04 21:36:56)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Martha Stuart wrote:

I don't think you need an active ECCM at all, STC ran into this problem when we were running missions on Norhoop,  you corral the NPC's inside a box of walls.  We did it all the time, its not hard, just takes about an hour to do.  No biggie.  Its not like all the Beta islands are gonna have every field under a NPC spawns.  Adapt and survive.

You can't wall everywhere, you know the 3km around terminal ?

144 Reply by Ludlow Bursar (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2013-09-04 21:42:30)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Martha Stuart wrote:

I don't think you need an active ECCM at all, STC ran into this problem when we were running missions on Norhoop,  you corral the NPC's inside a box of walls.  We did it all the time, its not hard, just takes about an hour to do.  No biggie.  Its not like all the Beta islands are gonna have every field under a NPC spawns.  Adapt and survive.

Aye, we used to do the same on Alsbale (not for assignment ores ofc) and we had nowhere near as many spawns as Hoop. It doesn't seem like a very elegant solution though. Bit of a fudge and the place ends up covered in hickledy-pickledy walls.

Even if there is no immediate chance of a solution by the time the epriton change comes I hope the Devs are seriously looking at a proper solution.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Thanks Ludlow.

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

While we are discussing it, we should make the factional ores and plants actually factional and only found on one color island...

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147 Reply by Tux

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

DEV Zoom wrote:

It's really just a quick idea that we could make in a few hours to make it a bit better. Removing static spawns in favor of roaming ones, reprogramming the whole mineral spawning system to have actual fields sensitive to NPCs and whatnot, are all changes that have widespread consequences and take months to develop.

really ??

leave the mineral  fields as is ... remove the current static spawns along with their corresponding missions (new missions are coming anyways)

and double or triple the amount of roaming spawns (in their current forms) currently on the beta islands ... i dont see where this could take months to do ...

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Obviously it's not the removal that would take months, but the missions and the new spawns (be it roaming or dynamically spawning) that would take a lot of planning, programming, content building, testing, and so on. There is a reason we have split the mission system revamp into two stages.

149 Reply by Martha Stuart (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-09-04 22:49:08)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Heliaso wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:

I don't think you need an active ECCM at all, STC ran into this problem when we were running missions on Norhoop,  you corral the NPC's inside a box of walls.  We did it all the time, its not hard, just takes about an hour to do.  No biggie.  Its not like all the Beta islands are gonna have every field under a NPC spawns.  Adapt and survive.

You can't wall everywhere, you know the 3km around terminal ?

Trust me, we ran a TONNE of missions and burned through quite a few fields and this was never a problem/the problem could be solved with a little ingenuity.

150 Reply by Heliaso (edited by Heliaso 2013-09-04 23:01:54)

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Re: Dynamic Ore Spawn Question.

Martha Stuart wrote:

a little ingenuity.

It doesn't allow to build wall outside 3km.