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Again, you are a smart guy.
Speak for the group and explain to everyone why its not broken.
I want to hear it from you and not xyz bear guy.
Burial had some very constructive things to say about it.
Its your turn, Merkle.
I like this side of Gunner, its the not quite angry side, but with a touch of Butthurt. Just a smudge.
Here is some homework for you. You have 12 pages of forums to re-read. Then you will learn the valuable insites that were put across.
But, Ignoring them might be far easier for you.
I await your next "witty" retort.
I read it. There are some impressive ideas. Dont get on me about what you know is broken. The BS is really thick here.
Here is some homework for you. You have 12 pages of forums to re-read. Then you will learn the valuable insites that were put across.
But, Ignoring them might be far easier for you.
I await your next "witty" retort.
Say one good solid thing about the mechanic that supports your opinion.
One thing, Merkle.
Here is some homework for you. You have 12 pages of forums to re-read. Then you will learn the valuable insites that were put across.
But, Ignoring them might be far easier for you.
I await your next "witty" retort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ
Just comes to mind.
I'll give you a hour or so to get through this mass of information that you need to re-read.
We all have a little bit of a slow reader in us.
Ill say this now ,,, and ill book mark this page to keep the i told you so warm and ready ...
If you keep asking for a change to spark teleport you will untimately push the community to seek alternate forms of transportation from the Devs... Cyno anyone ? 
..
Go ahead and keep saying its over powered ... people will do things less tedious. . . the main sore in this game has always been travel ... even between the alpha islands, forget about gamma or beta ... If players cant use a means of travel that doesnt require taking a 30 minute nap every time you need to go somewhere or do something then they wont play ....
You asked what other games allow you to insta travel across massive amounts of space / game area in seconds ?
Just about EVERY MMO on the market has some sort of mount / Flying traveler / teleport system / warp system / fast travel system to get from one place to another with out having to run the whole way.
& Guess what ? You can take your *** with you in those games. 
I would totally give up Spark teleport for a Train / subway / teleport system that took me from one NPC terminal to the next because thats what just about 95 % of all the other mmos have .. and hell ill just jump on this little train with my scarab MK2 chalk full of loots 
^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^
Is the kinda crap your going to get when the steam kiddies come and start pressing the devs for a "modern" transportation system ..
With sparks you need to preplan and still manually move assets around in the areas you operate in ...
The alternative : Cyno ? flight masters ?
NO THANKS !!!
understand that when the mission revamp comes it will eliminate the massive amounts of missions you can do via spark.
understand that mobility inthis game just like others propels the game ...
Could you imagine how many less people would play if EVE didnt have jump bridges / cyno generators ?
Could you imagine how many less fights would happen in EVE if people could not Cyno / jump bridge reinforcements into systems and esclate fights ? every one loves to watch the massive amounts of ships fighting each other in EVE. Do you think thoes people warped system after system 20 to 30 systems or more just to do soem pvp ? HELL NO !! the vast majority of them got a jump bridge or cyno set for them so it was possible for them to get to the fight while it was still going on .
Perp is not EVE, WOW or any other MMO but it does need a working transportation system ... one that allows people to interact with each other on demand.
So go ahead and keep pushing garbage ... see what unintended consequence they give you ...
Spark Teleport works just fine as it is currently implemented ~ no changes needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ
Just comes to mind.
I'll give you a hour or so to get through this mass of information that you need to re-read.
We all have a little bit of a slow reader in us.
whaaaa ?
Adding Spark Teleport is like giving Zippo lighters to Neanderthals.
Easy-mode caveman time.
Its like a Vodka enema.
Lets talk about Cyno and Titans. yay EVE again 
I am glad you brought it up because I have a war and peace novel about that.
EVE Online and Capitals and Titans and Cynos
I play EVE long long time and as Doek pointed out, that doesnt make me correct about everything, which is true. Try this on for size. *** this is gonna be long....
Lets talk about mass movement of players via cyno via Titan.
Time and Money: (a lot)Player A needs to invest a couple of solid years or more in skills just pilot a Titan. The titan isself can easily be valued at 50 bil which is 100 x $20.00 real money at current real in game PLEX conversion. So, you have two or more years in real investment of time and money for character + another possible $2000.00 RL.
RISK:
Ok, the Titan, which can used to move many people up to a certain max distance needs to be in a safe place to operate without getting wtfpwned by hunters. More on hunters soon. So, safe POS usually used which is in a safe system which had to be taken by force by, sometimes, thousands of people.
Once, Titan is at safe POS, he can login, usually in safety and push out large groups of people to cyno somewhere to gank peoples face.
I had the pleasure, recently, of obliterating TEST alliance and nonstop PvP for a few weeks that involved many Titan cynos bridges, thousands and thousands of players.
There is a lot at risk here and lot goes in to it. This is not just a "Click" and poof 1000 guys are magically somewhere else.
Understand that?
This is a simple bridge Titan dying the day we had a 4000 person fight two weeks ago. That is $2000 US rl cash down the drain equivalent. That is what you call RISK Mistakes were made and he paid the price.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFF9LRvZF0
If super powerful mechanics have no risk, there isnt really a game we're playing.
This game Perp can been seen as a microcosm of the much larger EVE. You have troops to move from A to B, but here there is no restriction and no Risk. Amazingly with EVE, which is much larger, you have much fewer "Spark locations" to set and holy cow you also need to have faction standing with the station too.... *gasp*
It is as if you took all the beta stations and all the SAP stations and stacked them on top of each other. You can be at anyone of them at any click. You can go back and forth as if time and space didnt exist.
I am quite enjoying our discussion, by the way.
Ill say this now ,,, and ill book mark this page to keep the i told you so warm and ready ...
If you keep asking for a change to spark teleport you will untimately push the community to seek alternate forms of transportation from the Devs... Cyno anyone ?
Lets talk about Cyno and Titans. yay EVE again
I am glad you brought it up because I have a war and peace novel about that.
[This spot saved for WOT]
humm you must not have read my post all the way through .. this may help:
http://edugamestar.com/what-every-adult … ading.html
I'll read the whole thing now, I stopped at the word Cyno.
Gunner wrote:Lets talk about Cyno and Titans. yay EVE again
I am glad you brought it up because I have a war and peace novel about that.
[This spot saved for WOT]
humm you must not have read my post all the way through .. this may help:
Tux that tends to happen with him.
Were up to page 13 Keep up the good work!
That is the biggest joke excuse I have seen players and even Devs use.
Any of us veterans can easily fully stock the station in question in one single go.
Easy. Repeat for other stations.
You know it and I know it.
What a joke.
With sparks you need to preplan and still manually move assets around in the areas you operate in ...
Yet you never wish to talk about station lock outs.
Not surprised as that would mute you point.
There is no comparison to the amount of work, maintenance, money, mechanics. planning, holding areas, etc etc etc with respect to EVE jump bridges, and titan cynos.
The system we have requires no risk, the smallest amount of SP. It is almost a meta mechanic.
I welcome a full blown actual game system that has bots and modules and time to put in place and guys to guard and guys to guard the guys guarding, detection system for whatever.
Do any of you guys even play eve besides shooting 1's and 0's in empire? I gather you do not if you can think of comparing the two systems as "the same" or similar.
The day Spark was patched in, I remember Balf said something to me about clone jumping and I was like um ok thats cool what is the cooldown. He said "none".. I just laughed and expected the 24 hour patch, but it never came.
so ridiculous
Could you imagine how many less people would play if EVE didnt have jump bridges / cyno generators ?
Could you imagine how many less fights would happen in EVE if people could not Cyno / jump bridge reinforcements into systems and esclate fights ? every one loves to watch the massive amounts of ships fighting each other in EVE. Do you think thoes people warped system after system 20 to 30 systems or more just to do soem pvp ? HELL NO !! the vast majority of them got a jump bridge or cyno set for them so it was possible for them to get to the fight while it was still going on .
.
I dont have a problem with lockouts. I have a problem with you managing 15 or 18 or whatever stations with 3 guys and not actually having to travel there.
These islands were meant to be managed by hundreds of people, but we dont need that because we can be in all of them at any time as if they were all together in one space.
That is the overpowered part of it, at least.
There is no time and no distance and no penalty.
Really?
You like if because it favors you.
I dont like if because I know its broken.
If its changed, you are screwed.
Yet you never wish to talk about station lock outs.
Not surprised as that would mute you point.
Gunner,
You are failing to see where the RISK is here ... the risk is front-loaded in Perpetuum where it is not in EVE.
People in perpetuum risked hundred of millions or billions of nic placing equipment in the right locations ( <<<< Strategy) then they RISK again when they come out to fight in the bots / modules that they have already moved to the locations they are operating in. the equipment and bots have to be taken to the terminal before you can use them when you spark there.
Even more risk is that some locations are not 100% safe like the beta terminals are (TMB/ICSB/ABT) ... that can be taken by opposing forces and people can be locked out of assets they located there. How is this NOT risk ?
In Perpetuum everyone that wants to be involved in an operation going on needs to have a spark where the action is +
every has to have robots and modules at the ready in the location that the action is taking place, these items have to be taken to these locations prior to using them at thoes locations <<< More risk
In EVE 1 Guy in a titan can move 1000+ people have way across the game space ... they didnt need to previously infiltrate the system or the surrounding area and place assets in strategic positions they just had to be on in the system as the titan pilot and POOF !!! 1000+ guys 1/2 across the game ... thoes guys didnt need do anything but follow the titan ... hell many of them probably didnt even know where they were going they were just following orders. Is there risk here sure but its only 1 time risk .. when you jump into an opposing fleet, no setup required just jump and go go go.
^^^ dont forget ^^^
Titans arnt "rare" like they use to be so multply this by another 1000 and you have the capability of the entire games population being able to basically be anywhere always.
Is this system good for EVE ? sure it creates mobility and thats what drives PVP and industry.
Perpetuum needs a transportation system that allows mobility.
There is no comparison to the amount of work, maintenance, money, mechanics. planning, holding areas, etc etc etc with respect to EVE jump bridges, and titan cynos
LOL i have spent well over a year building gammas !!! that is a labor of love !!!
There is large amounts of investment in time and money in both games .. EVE has been around longer so people can say they have spent more time doing stuff in eve .. simple
I had 7+ accounts in eve and played for 5+ years .. i understand how the game works ... i dont want to return to it ...
eve is not superior to perp ... they are two different systems trying to create mobility for players
and it takes a frig with a cyno gen to light off a cyno for caps to come through ... less than 5 mill & and a few days of xp i for get the exact train time it been a while but its stupid short .. i know i use to run cyno trains back and forth from the drone regions for years ... the little effort it takes to place a cyno is on the same level on level 1 Spark teleport.
I dont have a problem with lockouts. I have a problem with you managing 15 or 18 or whatever stations with 3 guys and not actually having to travel there.
These islands were meant to be managed by hundreds of people, but we dont need that because we can be in all of them at any time as if they were all together in one space.
That is the overpowered part of it, at least.
Sounds like a personal problem to me ... not a problem with the game mechanic
Gunner,
You are failing to see where the RISK is here ... the risk is front-loaded in Perpetuum where it is not in EVE.
People in perpetuum risked hundred of millions or billions of nic placing equipment in the right locations ( <<<< Strategy) then they RISK again when they come out to fight in the bots / modules that they have already moved to the locations they are operating in. the equipment and bots have to be taken to the terminal before you can use them when you spark there.
Even more risk is that some locations are not 100% safe like the beta terminals are (TMB/ICSB/ABT) ... that can be taken by opposing forces and people can be locked out of assets they located there. How is this NOT risk ?
In Perpetuum everyone that wants to be involved in an operation going on needs to have a spark where the action is +
every has to have robots and modules at the ready in the location that the action is taking place, these items have to be taken to these locations prior to using them at thoes locations <<< More risk
For us, stocking stations is easy. We have virtually unlimited resources, bots and mods. You guys do too. One logistics run and done.
You know its easy and one run can last weeks of bots for everyone.
In EVE 1 Guy in a titan can move 1000+ people have way across the game space ... they didnt need to previously infiltrate the system or the surrounding area and place assets in strategic positions they just had to be on in the system as the titan pilot and POOF !!! 1000+ guys 1/2 across the game ... thoes guys didnt need do anything but follow the titan ... hell many of them probably didnt even know where they were going they were just following orders. Is there risk here sure but its only 1 time risk .. when you jump into an opposing fleet, no setup required just jump and go go go.
^^^ dont forget ^^^
Titans arnt "rare" like they use to be so multply this by another 1000 and you have the capability of the entire games population being able to basically be anywhere always.
Is this system good for EVE ? sure it creates mobility and thats what drives PVP and industry.
Perpetuum needs a transportation system that allows mobility.
Gunner wrote:
There is no comparison to the amount of work, maintenance, money, mechanics. planning, holding areas, etc etc etc with respect to EVE jump bridges, and titan cynos and it takes a frig with a cyno gen to light off a cyno for caps to come through ... less than 5 mill & and a few days of xp i for get the exact train time it been a while but its stupid short .. i know i use to run cyno trains back and forth from the drone regions for years ... the little effort it takes to place a cyno is on the same level on level 1 Spark teleport.
There is no similarity to the in game mechanic for Spark to the movement mechanics in EVE. (corrected)
I am not going to allow you to summarize EVE travel with just 1 cheap cyno ship. That is the tip of the iceberg and everyone here knows it.
With respect to Gamma, that has nothing to do with the topic of the Spark mechanic, its cool off and its power. Gamma is huge huge work and money, but that is off topic.
Your work in gamma doesnt allow spark system to be better or worse or anything, its off topic.
Could you imagine how many less fights would happen in EVE if people could not Cyno / jump bridge reinforcements into systems and esclate fights ? every one loves to watch the massive amounts of ships fighting each other in EVE. Do you think thoes people warped system after system 20 to 30 systems or more just to do soem pvp ? HELL NO !! the vast majority of them got a jump bridge or cyno set for them so it was possible for them to get to the fight while it was still going on .
Thats why the devs gave us interzone TP's before they gave us spark TP so you could effectively "Jump Bridge" Now all that's left to make the game balanced is a "cyno" or an Item that will allow people to jump to a specific player on the field.
Here's the hang up this broke mechanic keeps 2 many other 1/2 broke things fixed and its easier to let it be broke and OP then to fix it and deal with the xteen things that will also be not working as intended by its removal/Edit of functionality.
Its really not the missions that are broke its the fact that you can undock unlimited reinforcements from one base as soon as you are killed you spark and re-bot and undock.... This is where your wrong Tux in Eve, you would die medical clone activates if your fighting in your clone station good for you undock. If not you need to undock, Go through multiple gate maybe find a titan to bridge you. By the time you get back on the field unless it "6vdt which by the way I fought in" the fight is over. (And Merkle this is pointed at you) So you spotted the enemy you form up a quick strike team to kill them #1. The gank occurs, enemy has a few friends #2,3 that you didn't see so you engage them as well and kill them. By the time you have killed them reinforcements from other islands show up. This is an expected reaction Enemy #4,5. You think you can take them but OMG what this #1,2,3 all just undocked heavys from x station. You run.... you have to pass by y station to get to next tp. #1,2,3 all spark TP there and #5,6 just dropped a armored tp to cut you off. So by the element of surprise you have no where to go because of broken system. And this is just a small example of how fights normally go. There is no such thing as surprise when in 30 secs most people can log in spark tp and undock to make you run re-dock spark somewhere else to cut you off. And not just one island this could be any island at once.
No, it sounds like I am right.
Gunner wrote:I dont have a problem with lockouts. I have a problem with you managing 15 or 18 or whatever stations with 3 guys and not actually having to travel there.
These islands were meant to be managed by hundreds of people, but we dont need that because we can be in all of them at any time as if they were all together in one space.
That is the overpowered part of it, at least.
Sounds like a personal problem to me ... not a problem with the game mechanic
What the game in Beta is now and what is used to be or supposed to be:
PvP and Beta station capture should be:
A group of dudes who want to live in Island D, puts hits saps on station H.
The guys who own station H live on the island and they show up and defend and stuff and outcome is decided, people explode. The defending force and attacking force now decide if to hang around or not operating on the island and apply pressure the the guys that LIVE there. The defending force decides to stay or not stay.
Blue friends decide to TRAVEL from islands G H and L to help out their buddies and they use Teles or Interzones to MOVE and move in with their friends for the remainder of the defense. They do stuff on the island and blow stuff up in skirmish fights and whatnot.
More pressure is applied to H station and defenders are starting to lose and have to make a decision to hang around or not. They decide to pull back a little and either leave their gear there or move it out. Stomp stomp in to the beta station or Alpha.
The friends decide that the traveling is just too much of a "tedium" to continue to defend saps as it eats up and hour plus another 30 minutes to and hour of moving 2 times per day.
A DECISION has to be made to keep defending or fall back to where friends of other corpmates actually LIVE.
=-=-=-=-=--=
Fast forward to sparks.
all of the above doesnt matter.
Just spark in unlimited forces from any distance in zero time, fight and spark out.
The End.
There is no comparison to the in game mechanic for Spark to the mechanics in EVE for anything.
I am not going to allow you to summarize EVE travel with just 1 cheap cyno ship. That is the tip of the iceberg and everyone here knows it.
Haha, but you get to (at least 3 times in the first 5 pages of this thread)?
Your argument throughout this thread:
- X is an A
- Y is an A also
- Therefor all X's must be Y's!!! Woohoo!!!
OR you kill # 1,2 and get tied up fighting with #3 because hes tanked to high hell and a titan bridges 30 guys to the system and wipes you ... your done ... so many things that could happen here...
spark v cyno /JB are forms of transportation ...
my point is that you need a working form of transportation ... saprk teleport fills that hole..
If you want something else it needs to be complete and functional ... you can not take away sparks or add timers to them to break the transportation system even more than it is now.
Interzones are not a comparable to JB's with a JB you dont single file through the bridge.. could you imagine how stupid that would be in eve? to have 100+ people all single file through a jump bridge ? it wouldn't work ... that's why mobile teleports are a Broken part of the transportation system we have here in perp.
mass transit is always better and people like it more. so untill the ranges on interzones are multiplied ten fold and all teleports are able to be used by 100+ people at once (no single file) the system will depend on spark teleport to limp it along.
is it perfect no ..
should their be a massive overhaul of how the transportation system in perp works ? yes but that's a bigger topic than just changing spark teleport.
Here's the hang up this broke mechanic keeps 2 many other 1/2 broke things fixed and its easier to let it be broke and OP then to fix it and deal with the xteen things that will also be not working as intended by its removal/Edit of functionality.
So you ask for the whole system to be fixed not break the thing that's keeping it held together by shoestrings, and watch the whole system implode on its self.
"hey devs our opponents abuse spark teleport because they have more people than us and therefore can be in so many places at once and all gather quickly because of spark teleport !!! change spark teleport" <<< not a valid arguement...
"hey devs there could be a lot of improvements in the transportation system of the game to make it more balanced and support more players while have options for mass transit"
here are some suggestions 1, 2, 3, etc ..<<< valid argument.
spark teleport is a solution for an incomplete transportation system, spark teleport is not broken ... the transportation system is. Until there is major over haul of the system allowing massive movements of players from point to point we will need spark teleport.
so in perp you think it would be good to be able to warp to a fixed (20+) point(s) in the island/system ? because thats what eve has .. dont think it would make much sense here .. im sure there would be many who would trade spark teleport for that feature in a second.
on board teleport to anywhere on island (including stations) any one ... oh and with no cooldown + set how far from the TP / gate you want to land ...?
You know what I meant, Doek
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