276

Re: Spark Teleports

I didnt loved the idea about spark teleportations, because the game was about you need to be there if you want something there. So logically I dont support the idea of sparks. But the DEVs got many "whining" about speed (from me also) and this is also true. So they decided about spark teleports and cheap teleport beacons.

With sparks you are there in time, yes you are need to been there before, but 1 time to travel vs all the time is pretty much more.

I would say the same what Celebro said, we should wait until this will be a problem and will have decent playerbase to decide it is wrong or not. So I recommend wait a bit more and see whats happen.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

277 (edited by Burial 2013-08-10 20:54:00)

Re: Spark Teleports

Lemon wrote:
Burial wrote:

If someone decides to commit on one area and use a chunk of their sparks to securing it to the fullest then why can't they?

Because you want to enable both parties to get a few hits in before the fights over.

Lets Take Novastrov for example: If we remember back to the first battle of my last return to play you will see a lot of similarities.

Lets pretend one of us decide we want to own/roam NC and we go to its first sap with 20~guys. You get all dressed up and decide your fits and move out.

All it would take is the proper 3-5 bots to keep that group busy or harassed while you can spark in to Dana and full equip either larger or counter bots to engage from the flank instantly.

Lets pretend I flank with 15 bots that is a rank wall.

Now we can dive down in to who will win or not win but regardless of who does in this situation both parties have a fighting chance if the right calls are made.

There is no possible way a new player who is limited on his in-game ability and must rely heavily on his knowledge of the game to overcome fights will be able to combat or even acknowledge what is happening as they die.

I can count the FC"s who could even give me a run for my money If I was the defender on 1 hand. If this is the number of players who have the knowledge and awareness to combat this then how is this possibly good for the game?

EDIT: by no means should gamma sparking be limited. I know these are extreme situations I am bringing up but they will be common in a flourishing environment.

That's something that can happen regardless of Spark Teleportation. There's many stations that could be used without even using Spark Teleportation on Tellesis and Attalica. If someone wants to do it he will find means.

278 (edited by Burial 2013-08-10 23:38:41)

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

This and also some things that Arga was talking about are among the better ideas ive read.

I think Zoom would be interested in looking at this.

Burial wrote:

Throwing another wild idea: Remove spark teleportation and allow only to be sparked into beta outposts(when stability is over certain threshold) and gamma terminals you own(or in the future, your alliance owns)?
Alpha sparking could be based with relations.

With that system, no-one could spark to beta terminals anymore.

Taking it few steps further...

First, the devs would have to establish faction standings for each of the tree factions. After that, people could lay sparks in that factions terminals if they have the nessecary standing to do so - this applies only to the terminals people can't claim. Now for the fun part: Hostile actions on these faction's islands would reduce the factional standing and after some time you would not be able to use the sparks you have set due to too low relations.

Of course that leaves players with options to either play by these rules to save time from traveling or just skip it and work out of their outposts on beta, living as a pirate.

279 (edited by Lemon 2013-08-10 23:48:56)

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

That's something that can happen regardless of Spark Teleportation. There's many stations that could be used without even using Spark Teleportation on Tellesis and Attalica. If someone wants to do it he will find means.

So maybe this is just me but I am not making a connection on how redeploying from the nearest alpha terminal is the same as sparking and redeploying from another terminal on the same island after already engaging someone.  Would you mind clearing that up.

If the majority thinks it is healthy to allow what I have stated then by all means lets allow it. I will wait to see if this is another "I told you so"  or I could be entirely wrong and it is balanced.

The record to beat is 3 days from the the first use to the balancing patch, currently held by the debut of the ERP Artemis.

Second place is either the L-Demob nerf or the Teleporter mechanic revamp.

I really am not comfortable with a flood of new players showing up knowing that I can on my own kill upwards of 25 at a time. Then be able to instantly move around to maintain supior positioning and mobility, while also having the ability to drop the red curtain in the same fashion. They tend to provoke that behavior in me and other *cough *cough

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

280 (edited by Burial 2013-08-11 00:46:09)

Re: Spark Teleports

I understood the point was that a part of the group would stay behind to keep the attention of the enemy while bigger part of friendly force sneaks behind them from another outpost. All I said was that there are other ways to get behind the enemy lines, which would mean any fix to sparking won't necessarily remove these tactics from the game. It could theoretically take more time than just flat out sparking and walking, but probably not too much in your example because of where Danarchov is located.

Either way, in your example it sounds very much like the guys left behind will be dead before anyone reaches back to help. Fabricated deep and has lost sense of reality.

I don't see nothing wrong with anyone using similar tactics though. What warrants the need for removal?
In the end, do you want cooldown added to the game only because you don't like some of the tactics people use?

281

Re: Spark Teleports

There is more than one way to keep a roaming group of assaults/mechs/HM's flagged and tied up on the field be it legs of plates or properly fit turtle tanks.

The idea is not for me, but rather the game as I love the ability with spark teleportation currently. However your average joe facing you or me utilizing this against him and moving bots that appear to be godzilla to him at every corner. He will not want to keep playing for very long.

If I were to spark to alpha I would need to have a bot large enough to move a interzone or beacons and the travel time involved+charge is significantly longer than spark-counter fit-deploy-intercept-win.

As the attacker you have already shown your hand once spotted by a defender. I am then able to pick and choose the perfect hand to beat you and deploy as the defender. You hand them almost guaranteed superior positioning no matter your move. The odds are very quickly becoming stacked in favor of one side, especially in a full loss death game.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

282

Re: Spark Teleports

I would like to take this time to remind everyone that a 1 hour cooldown is a fair compromise on SpT.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

283

Re: Spark Teleports

Spark Teleport Is fine as it currently is ...

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

284

Re: Spark Teleports

With the 10 active players, yes it is but not when Steam lands.  It's going to get a lot nastier when there's 200 ish wtf posts why can these *** be every where posts.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

285

Re: Spark Teleports

Inda wrote:

I would say the same what Celebro said, we should wait until this will be a problem and will have decent playerbase to decide it is wrong or not. So I recommend wait a bit more and see whats happen.

Taking something away from people makes them mad. If devs wait until new players get used to sparking around, then nerf it, they will be much more likely to rage quit than if the mechanic is already in place when they start playing.

I would say devs are better off making the current die-hard players mad now by over compensating and then slowly decreasing the timer after there is a decent player base.

Why, how, and when.

Why, the mechanic is over-powered and provides a huge advantage to vetern players with lots of EP to spend on sparks with vast supplies of bots and modules.

How, still open for debate, my suggestion is a 1 hour timer that starts when you select a bot.

When, still open for debate, but there's no advantage to waiting until the WHY becomes an issue, as it will result in taking something away from new players that wasn't really a problem for them, and likely cause de-subbing.

286 (edited by Celebro 2013-08-12 18:02:55)

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:
Inda wrote:

I would say the same what Celebro said, we should wait until this will be a problem and will have decent playerbase to decide it is wrong or not. So I recommend wait a bit more and see whats happen.

Taking something away from people makes them mad. If devs wait until new players get used to sparking around, then nerf it, they will be much more likely to rage quit than if the mechanic is already in place when they start playing.

I would say devs are better off making the current die-hard players mad now by over compensating and then slowly decreasing the timer after there is a decent player base.

Why, how, and when.

Why, the mechanic is over-powered and provides a huge advantage to vetern players with lots of EP to spend on sparks with vast supplies of bots and modules.

How, still open for debate, my suggestion is a 1 hour timer that starts when you select a bot.

When, still open for debate, but there's no advantage to waiting until the WHY becomes an issue, as it will result in taking something away from new players that wasn't really a problem for them, and likely cause de-subbing.

Nerfing stuff won't go away after steam, its part and parcel of an MMO to balance the game, why would new players leave because of a spark nerf?. Won't they be relieved all these old vets can't take advantage of SpT?

Edit: let's wait this one out

RIP PERPETUUM

287

Re: Spark Teleports

For now, I'd stay away from changing a feature that makes this game a lot less tedious, and honestly doesn't upset balance. I'd be surprised if there are more than 10 people that have this to 10, and even so, there's a lot more business to be done than setting it to every beta terminal (and loading it up with enough bots). We can discuss hypotheticals all we want, but with all the proposed 'solutions', I'd hate to be the guy who's needs to explain this one in the game manual.

Besides, never heard of setting a trap when your opponent is really getting that predictable?

288

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:

Edit: let's wait this one out

Mining nerf; people stopped playing
Wall nerf; people stopped playing

ect.

People leave when things change, even if the changes are good for the game.

From a pure numbers standpoint, there are less people to leave now then if they wait, not to mention the people playing now have so much invested in the game that they are much less likely to leave.

tl;dr - there is no upside to waiting

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga you are clearly someone whos not listening to reason..

290

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

Arga you are clearly someone whos not listening to reason..

I've been known to be that way.

291

Re: Spark Teleports

I still love you Arga.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

292

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

I still love you Arga.

Seems unreasonable enough ...

I love you too man!

293

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Edit: let's wait this one out

Mining nerf; people stopped playing
Wall nerf; people stopped playing

ect.

People leave when things change, even if the changes are good for the game.

From a pure numbers standpoint, there are less people to leave now then if they wait, not to mention the people playing now have so much invested in the game that they are much less likely to leave.

tl;dr - there is no upside to waiting

If (post steam launch) people leave because the devs nerf spark teleport it tells me one thing ... they didnt need to nerf spart teleport.

People left after the wall nerf because the DEV's did a "wrong" thing by nerfing walls

People did NOT leave after the probe nerf because probes were TRULY over powered. there was no reason corp should have PERP CCTV and see what everyone was doing on every island. 99.9% of the game population agreed.

People  leave games when DEV's make "not so wise" changes to quite/calm an outspoken segment of the population in many cases. which in many cases that segment of the population was on their way out anyways they just need an excuse to leave.

This feature is been in the game for over a year now. I think if it was drastically overpowered like you all are claiming it would have been changed long ago .. the wall change took less than 60days if i recall correctly to get nerfed into what it is now. I find it hard to believe that all of a "sudden" its a problem.

it feels more like a "small segment" of the game population wants something changed so they are not at a disadvantage ... and are trying to speak for those (steam players) who dont even play the game yet. This I assure you (Devs) is not the case ... We have all seen this charade many times before ... it is different now. Theres always going to be a few people crying about something ... I would say take it to a vote or pole ... because i assure a large % of active players / subs (trials dont count) do not want changes made to spark teleport. all i see is a hand full of people whining.   

Keep up with the shenanigans their going no where fast.

Spart Teleport is balanced, working, and fair as it currently IS

TL;DR .. READ IT ^

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

294 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-13 04:37:05)

Re: Spark Teleports

A powerful tool just cant be left as it is to make a few people have "less tedious" things to do.


Let's see:


Manage an area of stations that should require a hundred people can be done in a "less tedious" manner by using an instant warp from point A to point B with no penalty.  There is no decision to be made.  There is no risk.  Poof, here we are, poof, there we go.  I can move back and forth freely over great distances, over and over and over again.


Now, missions, this is the real heart of the screw job.

With sparks, you can collect 7 missions from 3 stations in 10 seconds.  Then, complete them in another 3 minutes.

LETS REPEAT THAT


Using the " works fine" spark system to collect 7 missions from three stations in 10 seconds.


That is 3 geographically separtated stations in 10 seconds.

no effort

no thought

no penalty

the smallest speck of risk



7 missions in 10 seconds


again


7 missions in 10 seconds




Any person here that can say that that is not broke as ***.  Is just holding out to colllect as many hundreds of thousands of tokens as possible.

We know you are.  We watch you.  and hey I did it too.   That doesnt dam mean its correct or "good as is"



This is going to get changed, people.






Next:

Whatever defense:


I can pull every blue noob from every corner of the world to hotspot A any time I want to.

Hey Joe TOG guy, its xyz sap time, just roll on over here, dont worry it will only take a few minutes and its cool bro because you can hop right back over vast distances with no risk and no penalty.  You dont even have to think. A bowl of Jello could click a spark and spark right on back...


ahh man guys, Im sorry that playing the game with 10 guys is so "tedious"


man o man, what a drag travelling is, but its cool I dont have to any more.


Thanks CCP for the magic button



yay. we win the game

click

click

click

I win  yay

Re: Spark Teleports

Stop hitting Return...we dont need a three page post from one guy.

Gunner keeps going back to the mission system...forgetting its going to be changed.

Memory Loss?

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

296 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-13 04:43:29)

Re: Spark Teleports

Just keep collecting those tokens and praying none of this gets fixed.


You are a tactical person.  You know the system is wrong.

For now, it favors you.



I dont even care about this mindless portion of the timeframe for the game.

I am gravely concerned that this Ultra overpowered mechanic makes its way in to Steam release.

It is going to abused so badly. so so badly


I told you so is going to drop down like a ton of bricks on the  community.




That new missions system, there is no way its going to allow for what you are seeing right now.


So, keep running those missions while you can.


spark spark spark  spark

ka-ching

ka-ching


oh wait, Hydels up, ill be back in a sec.   Spark,   kaching,  I win again,  back to wherever, spark spark

isnt perp easy?

yay












Merkle wrote:

Stop hitting Return...we dont need a three page post from one guy.

Gunner keeps going back to the mission system...forgetting its going to be changed.

Memory Loss?

Re: Spark Teleports

Its like I'm speaking a differing language.  Why wont you Learn.. WHY!

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Say something meaningful other than:

"We like it. It favors us."

Re: Spark Teleports

I like this side of Gunner, its the not quite angry side, but with a touch of Butthurt.  Just a smudge.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

300 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-13 05:04:47)

Re: Spark Teleports

We dont have to keep eyes on troop movements anymore:   yay just spark

We dont have to have any of that pesky movement to contact any more:  yay just spark

We dont have to worry about getting to station through that group of guys at all;  just spark yay

I dont have risk of travel to Gamma turtle,  yay spark it

I dont have to have my logistics sorted out at all!  Jimmy needs a mod? what hey just spark it.

I dont need to prep anything any more, just spark to closest station,  yay we win the game.

Hey Intrusion 2.0 bring back skirmish?   nah we just spark it!

I dont have to think ahead. I just spark it.

I dont have to prepare, except that one time we took bots to station, once in a single Hauler.  Oh thanks god nobody caught us. lol  That was for the Devs.

I can even take a nap because I dont even have to be at the keyboard, because my bowl of Jello is sparkin it.

New player dont want to use gates to other alpha?  hey just spark it.

Strategy?  nope just spark it.

Tactics? nope, toss those out, either login trap or spark it.

Hey lets go on a roam?  lol a roam?  f that just spark it bro.

Oh noes whos the guy who forgot to set his spark,  well, you are going to have to "tediously travel"


Tell us to play the game? lol    You play the game. All I see is your alts sparking missions all day and all night.

spark spark spark




nah its not overpowered at all, we were meant to be everywhere at any time with no penalty or thought whatsover