Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

No, I was talking about Sparks, ewar is awesome.


Merkle wrote:
Gunner wrote:

glad ewar is on killmails now, christ that took forever to convince


this will get altered as well, it may not get altered all the way, but it will

Holy ***...Did Gunner just admit Ewar is a wee bit OP?


Oh no you dont, you cant take it back now.  Its already been said.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

People keep discussing PvP in the context of just One fight.

As if the future of Perp has one fight per day.



You guys dont see what it will be like.


This is what it will be like:


Log in, there is a huge fight in Als with 100 vs. 100 assaults.

At the same time, there are six other skirmishes in Dom and Hock which involve other groups of bots of less than 10 each.

Also, there is a Gamma assault going on in XXXXX island.

These fights end and three more start up in other areas.



This is what we should be dealing with and clicking one button to be everywhere is going to have a great effect on those fights, because you really dont have to do anything to get to them.

It shouldnt be that way.



You should have to make a decision to mobile tele to Fight A or B or C, but cant do all because the are seperated by DISTANCE.




60 minute forums posting cooldown timer


All of a sudden we dont have a PVP flag timer...

We sure are skipping quite a bit of what is already in the game just to make a small point.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

228 (edited by Burial 2013-08-09 23:24:06)

Re: Spark Teleports

All I see spark teleportation cooldown affect is operations on gamma islands. I'm talking about hauling operations between terminals, small tasks such as probe checking, terraforming checking, helping a corp-mate out by showing him all the various routes on your gamma and so on. There's more pain than gain.

People who think it's going to help Beta islands will need to realise that right at the moment people start to see they are getting stuck on beta outposts/terminals because of spark teleportation cooldown will make them not use sparking and find other ways to get to the objective. An Interzone teleport from Alpha2 is even worse for the attackers. The defender can jump to ANY teleport whithin range(translates to most of the teleports on beta).

Sparking is more convenient, Interzone is more powerful.

229 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-09 23:20:33)

Re: Spark Teleports

19-24 hours for Clone jumping and you are talking about a 5 minute timer.

That is how far we are separated on the subject.


Merkle wrote:

All of a sudden we dont have a PVP flag timer...

We sure are skipping quite a bit of what is already in the game just to make a small point.

Re: Spark Teleports

So lets make it a 1 hour pvp flag and not screw with spark teleport. Problem solved. Thank you and good night.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

231 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-09 23:58:48)

Re: Spark Teleports

sTP     now has a cost




Spark once in an hour - free

Spark again under 60 minutes costs = 20 tokens of the color where you are going

Spark again under same start timer = 40 tokens "

Spark again still not cooled down = 80 tokens "
.... 160 "
..... 320 "


let the first jump timer hit zero and back to free


Alpha destinations 2, 4, 8 cost

Gamma, who knows




Beastmodeguns would run out of tokens in first 15 minutes of patch with his last jump costing 5120 tokens tongue


I am kidding, but there could be some truth to above.

232 (edited by Celebro 2013-08-09 23:46:42)

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:

The point isn't if it needs a cool-down, it does and trying to argue against that isn't going to get anywhere.


While the need for the cool-down is clear, it's not so clear about how long it should be. Remember that the cool-down only starts if you select a bot. Meaning the only thing we really need to look at from a time perspecitve, is things that you would go to a station to undock for.

And with that, I'll have leave it to Lemon and Merkle to figure out if it should be a 1 min or a 1 day cooldown.

I hate to say this but cool-down should be something around 24 hrs anything less is an annoyance. Most people play at the same time each day, so if it's 24hrs, players will just accept it and not wait for cool down.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Spark Teleports

At that point you may as well remove it from game completely and go back to only bloodspark.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

234

Re: Spark Teleports

Celebro wrote:

I hate to say this but cool-down should be something around 24 hrs anything less is an annoyance. Most people play at the same time each day, so if it's 24hrs, players will just accept it and not wait for cool down.

Should there be a global cool down or a per spark cool down?

Re: Spark Teleports

I still say just lengthen the pvp flag. That would solve the issue. Now if you spark and engage, you stay flagged for 15 minutes. That would solve your fighting on all fronts theory, and wouldn't effect the logistic benefit that spark teleport gives.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

236

Re: Spark Teleports

So this threadnaught, with next to no content, has now turned into calling random timespans?

Let's do 19.6 sec.

Re: Spark Teleports

I suggested to Devs that the PvP action itself starts the Spark timer and say 30-60 minutes after PvP conclusion sparks are available again unless you pay tokens of color of the destination station.

I think ideas like this are more practical and are more dynamic than the sledgehammer.



Shadowmine wrote:

I still say just lengthen the pvp flag. That would solve the issue. Now if you spark and engage, you stay flagged for 15 minutes. That would solve your fighting on all fronts theory, and wouldn't effect the logistic benefit that spark teleport gives.

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

19-24 hours for Clone jumping and you are talking about a 5 minute timer.

That is how far we are separated on the subject.


Merkle wrote:

All of a sudden we dont have a PVP flag timer...

We sure are skipping quite a bit of what is already in the game just to make a small point.

Why do you continually bring up EvE? The type of pvp you long for in perp doesnt exist there either. .. And it has a one day cooldown. You are not making your point.

And can someone please tell me how after our mass blob fleet is lured outta Karapayth by a fake attack by a few blobs and we chase them halfway across Hoop ... Oh no, the real attack starts on Hokk ... How the *** are we gonna instant spark over there with our blob? Even without PvP cooldown timers its a MINIMUM of 5-10 minutes to get those in the fleet with sparks at the real location ... And not everyone has them at that location .... Seriously you are building it up to make it seem OP.... Also, Arga,the same applies with my point about mobile teles ... Their charging time, depending where you are in the field is probably faster than "instant unlimited SpT"

C'mon you guys can do better ....

Re: Spark Teleports

The time is now set to zero and there are no penalties.

You of all people should be able to appreciate the problem.


Doek wrote:

So this threadnaught, with next to no content, has now turned into calling random timespans?

Let's do 19.6 sec.

Re: Spark Teleports

EVE Online Devs understood the implications the mechanic had on the dynamics of the game.

It is used as an example because thought was put in to it before it was dropped in to the game.


Here, they just toss stuff in and clean it up later. 

Example:

Day zero sensor beacons.

Month 1 of walls.

Gamma, various mechanics    00--->




The mechanic suits you, so you defend it.  I knew it was broken a lot time ago, so now I have to discuss it here to get it altered before thousands of Steam players are here wondering why some strange things are in the game.









Cassius wrote:
Gunner wrote:

19-24 hours for Clone jumping and you are talking about a 5 minute timer.

That is how far we are separated on the subject.


Merkle wrote:

All of a sudden we dont have a PVP flag timer...

We sure are skipping quite a bit of what is already in the game just to make a small point.

Why do you continually bring up EvE? The type of pvp you long for in perp doesnt exist there either. .. And it has a one day cooldown. You are not making your point.

And can someone please tell me how after our mass blob fleet is lured outta Karapayth by a fake attack by a few blobs and we chase them halfway across Hoop ... Oh no, the real attack starts on Hokk ... How the *** are we gonna instant spark over there with our blob? Even without PvP cooldown timers its a MINIMUM of 5-10 minutes to get those in the fleet with sparks at the real location ... And not everyone has them at that location .... Seriously you are building it up to make it seem OP.... Also, Arga,the same applies with my point about mobile teles ... Their charging time, depending where you are in the field is probably faster than "instant unlimited SpT"

C'mon you guys can do better ....

241 (edited by Lemon 2013-08-10 00:11:48)

Re: Spark Teleports

I still feel like no one read my posts fuuu

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

242 (edited by Burial 2013-08-10 00:12:55)

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

I suggested to Devs that the PvP action itself starts the Spark timer and say 30-60 minutes after PvP conclusion sparks are available again unless you pay tokens of color of the destination station.

I think ideas like this are more practical and are more dynamic than the sledgehammer.



Shadowmine wrote:

I still say just lengthen the pvp flag. That would solve the issue. Now if you spark and engage, you stay flagged for 15 minutes. That would solve your fighting on all fronts theory, and wouldn't effect the logistic benefit that spark teleport gives.

Unnecessary. Already extended PVP flag(10minutes instead of 5) should already give the fleeing players enough time to reach anywhere on a single island. If you are worrying about someone sparking ahead of you then even the cooldown will not help you.

On some example mentioned by someone attacking something on Heydel and then going to ICS-Beta. Why would you go to ICS-Beta of all the locations full well knowing that there could be people waiting.. ? Seems like a completely thought up situation with barely any resemblance to reality just to prove a trumped-up point.

243

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

The mechanic suits you, so you defend it.  I knew it was broken a lot time ago, so now I have to discuss it here to get it altered before thousands of Steam players are here wondering why some strange things are in the game.

That's not a bad assumption at all, but you started bringing up a different game to frame a supposed issue, with entirely different mechanics, different dynamics and a different scale. That to me indicates you have no perspective at all on suggesting to change a mechanic that has been in the game for quite a while.

Oh yeah, the other argument was people having 3 combat accounts with the spark extension to 10. Dream on happily.

244

Re: Spark Teleports

Trying to talk about specific scenrios is difficult, because the setup and executions are very complicated, and invariably we're going to simplify it so much that all of them are easily dismissable.

Let me try to push this time to something concrete.

What if the timer was slightly longer than the slowest travel time between to beta stations?

For instance, if it takes 17 minutes to pilot a scarab from station 1 to station 2, then a cool-down of 20 minutes means you could pop back and forth in slightly more time than it would take to drive it, but not so fast that you could play 'hot-box' with an intruder?

Again, this is a more tactical discussion, and is much more reliant having used the sparks (which I admittedly haven't), but I agree with Doek that throwing out random numbers isn't useful.

245

Re: Spark Teleports

1 hr is very generous and provides for some oh guck I got to walk and it is fast enough to use it multiple times a day.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

246

Re: Spark Teleports

Tbh I typically suggest more to get compromised in the middle.  But tbh I went straight to the compromise because its logically sound.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Spark Teleports

And again, you may as well get rid of spark teleport as bloodsparking to an alpha 2 and interzoning would then be the standard method of travel. Is that what we are trying to accomplish? Can't say I see the point.

And the pvp flag is the reason this 'hot boxing" doesn't actually happen....

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

248 (edited by Celebro 2013-08-10 01:02:02)

Re: Spark Teleports

Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:

I hate to say this but cool-down should be something around 24 hrs anything less is an annoyance. Most people play at the same time each day, so if it's 24hrs, players will just accept it and not wait for cool down.

Should there be a global cool down or a per spark cool down?

There's only one spark in game per player, so I meant global , again short cool downs will just annoy players imo, waiting for something to happen is bad game play mechanics.

RIP PERPETUUM

249 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-10 01:19:00)

Re: Spark Teleports

I play EVE for 10 years and Perp for almost two years.


While we are on the topic of EVE, my PvP record is over 5000 kills with less than 200 deaths.

I flew with the best and also flew against the best.  That is both skirmish and fleet PvP and back in the day high speed nano skirmish warfare.

I hope that gives some merit to what I say regarding that game.





The End




Doek wrote:
Gunner wrote:

The mechanic suits you, so you defend it.  I knew it was broken a lot time ago, so now I have to discuss it here to get it altered before thousands of Steam players are here wondering why some strange things are in the game.

That's not a bad assumption at all, but you started bringing up a different game to frame a supposed issue, with entirely different mechanics, different dynamics and a different scale. That to me indicates you have no perspective at all on suggesting to change a mechanic that has been in the game for quite a while.

Oh yeah, the other argument was people having 3 combat accounts with the spark extension to 10. Dream on happily.

Re: Spark Teleports

You guys dont see the point because the game has been compressed to a small space.

You have to think big.


and in thinking big, if you are a resident of Island like Norhoop, leaving Norhoop should be a roadtrip, not a click.



The Devs had made everything so tiny now.



This must be addressed or our transition to Steam is going to suffer.