26 (edited by Stranger Danger 2012-08-20 22:40:03)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

PVE = Farming stuff....the end.

Fix that and carebears will be able to enjoy building up an account thats able to take pvp losses.

You could make farming more complex.  Last i played the only thing that really changed was what kernal type dropped and some possible wrecked extensions that i would usually leave since they werent worth the weight to take back.

I would take missions out if i was in an area that offered quests for the mob spawn i wanted to farm, but other than that they weren't really worth doing just to do.



I would suggest a new farming mechanic and items.  While my miner account which serves as something to afk mine in near where im combat farming or in a known safe location (im fine with that) its the combat character that needs love.

Many people ive talked to whove quit this game fell into 2 categories. They either didnt want to have to have two accounts, one to afk mine and the other for pvp combat...or they simply found pve combat to be boring and not really worth the while...

Personally i think the combat in this game is fun.  I just think there needs to be a better mechanic than farming kernals and trying to break even with ammo drops. My disclaimer on this is that im an on and off player and im just returning from about a 50 day break and not up to date fully on whats different.


I do think that there needs to be a vital combat mechanic, stuff to farm that are not bulky worthless junk i cant sell without repairing (perhaps a deconstruct extension so i can recycle stuff on the spot or a recycle bot my miner could use?) 

Its a pain to get the good extension which it should be, but the act of farming npc mobs needs some "oomph" and some addicting mechanic that makes me want to log on and start blowing up mob robots. 

Make this fun and worthwhile and people wont need to have multiple accounts to support a pvp combat account...since that account could be more than viable to support itself and pvp bots on its own.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Quick question?  Why would the devs not want you to have more then one account?

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Ville wrote:

Quick question?  Why would the devs not want you to have more then one account?

Believe it or not, but we don't. It's just the thing that we want to make a multiplayer game with different roles and careers, where no single character is able to fill every role simultaneously.

The reality is that players really do want to do everything by themselves, and they use multiple accounts to achieve this. I believe one of the reasons for this is our low population, because it's hard to find anyone to go with you, let alone someone with a specific skillset.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

The definition of roles in perp pve are:

Damage dealer
Looter.
Booster.

when you consider that there is probably only a handfull of players on the world that likes to be soley lootmonkey in an 1-2 hour farming session where they have nothing more to do as doubleclicking loot container and pressing "loot all" key -> then you can perhaps see the error in the system.

also the buff bot - that one has even less to do.

You can replace the booster role with another Damage dealer, but most pve spawns get boring if you get there with more then two Damage dealer (aka combat bots) - and you always need the looter due to reward = loot.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

Quick question?  Why would the devs not want you to have more then one account?

Believe it or not, but we don't. It's just the thing that we want to make a multiplayer game with different roles and careers, where no single character is able to fill every role simultaneously.

The reality is that players really do want to do everything by themselves, and they use multiple accounts to achieve this. I believe one of the reasons for this is our low population, because it's hard to find anyone to go with you, let alone someone with a specific skillset.

Dev Zoom you can take the high road on this I understand why you say that but ultimately Perpetuum is a business.  You don't create something you love to have it  run in the red to turn into something you despise.  And you are also talking to someone who has multiple accounts to be self sufficient...  Geez just check the ban logs.  Multiple accounts  are a good thing.  They generate more money and they provide instant gratification.  This is a long term mmo it is designed to be played with people, whether they are shooting buffing or looting its meant to be a group activity.  Solo players have their place but one bot shouldn't be able to do the best spawns solo.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

DEV Zoom wrote:

I believe one of the reasons for this is our low population, because it's hard to find anyone to go with you, let alone someone with a specific skillset.

I believe one the the reasons for the low population is, because its hard to do anything with a single bot.

See - example situation: two agents meet and want to play together. Both are Combat agents. Neither of them can drive a hauler. neither of them has trained nexus skills. They are limited in what they can do as a team, almost as much as each one alone.

get another agent: Support. It takes month worth of extensions to become a good support bot. What can you do with that agent if you dont find someone killing things for you? running transport missions...

reason:
for each and everything there is a prerequisite extension, and obviously, you need the equip to do so. Also, even the Robots are so overspecialized with their bonuses and eg. a hauler cannot be fitted in a manner that would allow him to defend himself (1 weapon slot, no bonus, crap self-repair, pvp flag...)

Ontop of that, the 1 EP pool for 3 agents per account idea... just seems unlogical the more you think about it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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32 (edited by Alexander 2012-09-01 23:58:36)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

More. Stuff. To. Do.

Less annoying, more easy to get to grind with shiny but not completely useful rewards.

Going about 'carebearing it up' shouldn't take more planning than doing. Already a lot of fun things to do, just not many of them can be done alone. And if they can be done alone you still need alts. One scanner, one combat etc.. hmm

PVP is awesome and fun. With more players you should get more PVP. More players need to be entertained.

big_smile

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

Quick question?  Why would the devs not want you to have more then one account?

Believe it or not, but we don't. It's just the thing that we want to make a multiplayer game with different roles and careers, where no single character is able to fill every role simultaneously.

The reality is that players really do want to do everything by themselves, and they use multiple accounts to achieve this. I believe one of the reasons for this is our low population, because it's hard to find anyone to go with you, let alone someone with a specific skillset.

+1 on the OP

You are full of crap like a Christmas goose,,,or should i say carp. This quote is completely disingenuous, condescending,, to anyone who has played a 24/7  vertual world shooter. like 10six, terra battle for the outlands, jumpgate, There are others, but ill stick to those that attempt to limit players to ONE toon. 

What makes me sorta angry about your quote is that i have no evidence you know any different. One player games don't have corp banks, corp taxes.  The economy has controls to limit hording, inflation, availability of gear.  To keep my rant short, and to the point...What Perpetuum developers know about a single player mmo pvp,,,pve,,,game could be put in a ants ear...

Please don't insult me with another quote like this one...

I have one toon,,going on two years now...I tried the all for one,,,gig the first y;ear,,,now i am forced to play "gota do it all" role to be competive...no i am not as efficient as a multi toon peep,,but i dont care..or should i? 


PS  out of a corp of 100 i was the only one with one toon,,,please explain this...lol,,,

34 (edited by Celebro 2012-10-28 22:54:56)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

zigZag wrote:

What Perpetuum developers know about a single player mmo pvp,,,pve,,,game could be put in a ants ear...

Single player MMO's I just don't get it, how does that work well on a multiplayer level?. A game where, specialisation or careers are part of the game, is what I like. The downside is multi boxing, which is just a way to get an edge over single account players.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

So I recently came back about a week ago and have been playing around just doing PvE stuff and I agree, in order to attract a decent population the game is missing something on the PvE side. 

I'm not going to say I have the answers because I don't, but some of the things that I think could help are below.  I think those that have done a serious amount of PvP will agree, PvE is an important part of every PvPers life in this game because you lose all your stuff when you die and most cannot afford to just keep running around in new bots after a bunch of PvP(assuming you don't just use t1 equipment).  You have to PvE and rebuild your stash so it is very important that aspect of the game becomes better even for PvPers.

1)  Life without a corp should be possible on beta/gamma.  I have this weird dream that I would greatly enjoy it if this game had some sort of "player housing" where you could just find some open space on a island and start building a habitat(small one) that could not be destroyed and you could base out of.  Maybe this idea is flawed but I think the important thing is making it enticing for players to move to beta/gamma and have SOME safety and a place to base out of beyond the public terminals, encourage them to spread out, or form small loose-knit communities.  People like to build stuff - but not all people like communistic corps where only the leader(s) get to build stuff - give us more solo or small group buildable content that cannot be destroyed by pvp - but base it in pvp zones.  I think this could easily be implemented by some small tweaks to resource costs(don't make small house cost 50 trillion titan ok) and protection attributes of the gamma stuff.  Keep the bigger or more important stuff destructable - compromise is key here if you want the most people participating as possible.

2)  Central trading hub/island that links to all the alphas and maybe even betas.  Travel time in this game is a killer and biggest boredom to me.  It takes long enough to travel for assignment objectives let alone trying to go from one alpha to another.  I like big islands but I don't like huge trips between them.

Just some ideas, but a +1 for the OP and more PvE stuff that integrates closely with PvP stuff and thus can appease both crowds.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

+1

I've only been saying that for going on 2 years now.

A centeral hub with a link to all or most alphas is excellent idea, with beta and some (not all) gammas a hop from there. Alot of people pushed for a longer trip to encourage local trading at the further outposts. In reality it hurts everyone because travel time is too slow. Eve works because travel can be automated from one place to another. Do you really think all those freighter pilots are actively piloting jump to jump? I'm not saying perp should clone that, but bot speeds have been too slow since forever. The slowest bot on the planet should be 100 kph, with everything else faster from there. It takes too long to move from point A to point B.


Highways, highways and MORE HIGHWAYS. There should be a continious highway from the terminal to the teleport... every teleport. Alpha islands for sure, but maybe not to all the secondary outposts on betas (but to every NPC station on beta). I'm not sure if players can install highways on the gammas, but if they can't they should be able to.

A station teleport of some kind for alphas. Only works on alpha islands, a mobile teleport that sends you to the station. Pretty self-explanatory there, cut travel time for mission runners and haulers in half.

Pick any one of them and the game would retain more alpha island population. The last two probaly more then the first, but even the first idea would be a step in the right direction. When the game had the most population was back in the beginning when lights and light ew bots where what everyone used for the most part. When it started taking 20-30 minutes just to move to another island in mechs and heavies to look for a fight is when people started quitting alot. I can remember leading roams of 20-30 lights/light ewars after calling for formup 15 mins before hand, and then 20 mins later we were fighting somewhere (usually domhalarn). Remember calling for 100+ speeds. Those were the good times. We almost always found someone to fight and it didnt take 30 mins of moving from point A to point B in order to find it. I hardly do crap anymore because I can't be assed to move around for that long just to be able to do it. I can bet alot of people leaving the game on the trial feel the same way.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

How many times have the players got to say that travelling is utterly boring, before they actually do something about this?

+1 Good post Smokey.

RIP PERPETUUM

38 (edited by Burial 2012-10-30 21:43:39)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

This forum needs poll making ability. Would love to see how each and every one of you replies here on a poll. I personally think that making bots AT LEAST 50% faster across the board would be way to go. Devs, do it and don't think back! big_smile

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

the forums got a poll feature, but its bugged and not working - so it was deactivated.

50% faster bot - you know, the server-client connection doesn't handle speeds above 150kph very well, even at best connection.

Smokey is right with the highways and teleports - except, we dont actually need "more" highways, but someone needs to run defrag on them. 99% of the highways and teleporters are placed in a way that neutralises the possible speed gain during the travel towards them.

With other words: on most missions, it took me exactly the same time to get to the mission area when i used either highways and teleporters, or ran with autopilot pathfinding as straight as possible from terminal to mission area. (and the autopilot workes pretty fine on shinjalar when there is not a single other player on the island... )

NPC spawns are 99% static farming pits. Their location on the map and composition follows only one rule: the more NIC/min you can grind there, the further away from the terminal and teleports they are.  Their distribution on the islands is as even as possible...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

40 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-10-31 19:28:10)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Celebro wrote:

How many times have the players got to say that travelling is utterly boring, before they actually do something about this?

+1 Good post Smokey.

-1

I believe in the slower travel time.

The real issue in Smokiis post is Population, still.

I was a huge fan of EVE and love how this game has taken many of its successful elements. But the are two fundamental thing this game has that makes the PvP sooooo much more fun. One is the WASD with LoS. The other is the slow travel time.

Fact is that engagements can last 20-40 minutes or more in Perp where they last 2-4 minutes in EVE (or seconds even). If travel was really fast and easy I think it would have negative impact on PvP (given a larger Pop). I've a ton more to say but iPhone is pain.

Population is the issue more than travel time. We have lots of tools for getting around, and with unlimited Spark TP it's actually too easy.

Sparking to other games

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Rex Amelius wrote:
Celebro wrote:

How many times have the players got to say that travelling is utterly boring, before they actually do something about this?

+1 Good post Smokey.

-1

I believe in the slower travel time.

The real issue in Smokiis post is Population, still.

I was a huge fan of EVE and love how this game has taken many of its successful elements. But the are two fundamental thing this game has that makes the PvP sooooo much more fun. One is the WASD with LoS. The other is the slow travel time.

Fact is that engagements can last 20-40 minutes or more in Perp where they last 2-4 minutes in EVE (or seconds even). If travel was really fast and easy I think it would have negative impact on PvP (given a larger Pop). I've a ton more to say but iPhone is pain.

Population is the issue more than travel time. We have lots of tools for getting around, and with unlimited Spark TP it's actually too easy.


+1

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Annihilator wrote:

Smokey is right with the highways and teleports - except, we dont actually need "more" highways, but someone needs to run defrag on them. 99% of the highways and teleporters are placed in a way that neutralises the possible speed gain during the travel towards them.

With other words: on most missions, it took me exactly the same time to get to the mission area when i used either highways and teleporters, or ran with autopilot pathfinding as straight as possible from terminal to mission area. (and the autopilot workes pretty fine on shinjalar when there is not a single other player on the island... )

The Devs should actually take a lesson from RL here. People prefer to walk from point A to point B in the least amount of time & distance. Same goes for in game.
A landscaper once told me you can make nice paths all over the place but if they dont go in the right places & in a general fasion get you there in a good amount of time (depending on your location) , people either wont use them or cut across grass areas.

SO the over all network between the gamma & beta islands & the connections from beta to alpha islands works imo. Except the devs should never have removed the alpha 1 triangle that was a misstake & penalizes NEW PLAYERS & should be fixed! . But if we put aside the bad alpha 1 layout, the TP layout on the alpha 1  islands which is the problem i think needs to be fixed.

I Propose amending the layout to this:
Red = TP connections
Blue = New HWYs

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab30 … hanges.png

Doing this would effect travel times for new players / poor players the most. Rich farts this would only make an across game trip 1 min shorter. no more. But a new player this wuold mean travel times are a bit more acceptable AND the alpha 1 islands are connected. These islands are for new players to learn the game or do low ranked starting missions.

You DEVs want to improve the new player experience ? well this would help.

The network for gammas works well & any problems that people complain about out there come from the .... eh nvm ill insult the devs in another post on another day tongue

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

43 (edited by Celebro 2012-11-01 00:16:07)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Rex Amelius wrote:
Celebro wrote:

How many times have the players got to say that travelling is utterly boring, before they actually do something about this?

+1 Good post Smokey.

-1

I believe in the slower travel time.

The real issue in Smokiis post is Population, still.

I was a huge fan of EVE and love how this game has taken many of its successful elements. But the are two fundamental thing this game has that makes the PvP sooooo much more fun. One is the WASD with LoS. The other is the slow travel time.

Fact is that engagements can last 20-40 minutes or more in Perp where they last 2-4 minutes in EVE (or seconds even). If travel was really fast and easy I think it would have negative impact on PvP (given a larger Pop). I've a ton more to say but iPhone is pain.

Population is the issue more than travel time. We have lots of tools for getting around, and with unlimited Spark TP it's actually too easy.


Look at the past where catering only for the PVP crowd got us?- Nowhere. Pop is low and that harms pvp, more than anything.

I said, do something about this, not increase robot speed.

RIP PERPETUUM

44 (edited by Brutux 2012-11-01 04:12:02)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Perhaps simply restore the original alpha triangle?  Btw Good Post Rex, as usual.

Also as far as the single bot/multiple account .... the only thing the Devs do here to facilitate that is keep the subs cheap, and now with ICE even more so ...

Please name one MMO that allows for a one use-does all character? ... even regular games like BF III, TF, whatever ... they all have classes ... you select a specialization.

No one is forcing anyone to play with more than one account ... but because of the broad depth in this game and the fact there are legitimite areas to specialize in .. by trying to go solo its just not as efficient.

Making this game too damn easy will not help the playerbase. This game is an investment, its not a twitch game ... 

Also maybe slightly off topic but I dont have a problem with new accounts getting an extra ep boost via Amazon or whatever .. Its simply a marketing feature and thats fine ... beta players got a bonus that I didnt when I joined 7 months later ... but why should I, I wasnt beta.  As far as new players not catching up to older ones ... when I joined I had 20k ep and someone like Syndic or Merkle had 300k ... 15 times as much as I had .... now I have 700k and they have a million ... only 1.3 times more ... its close enough ..

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I don't see how faster speeds on robots would either discourage pvp or make engagements take less time. Bots will still take the same amount to time to make explode as they do now. Anni is right though, increasing bot speed is not a good idea, considering that anything over 150kph makes the client and server lag. There shouldnt be any reason though why highways with more of a straight line path and continious from the terminal to the teleports couldnt work. But really, I think more then anything the mobile teleport to station is the winning idea. I don't guess it's the moving to the mission or farming/mining spot is the killer, but whenever I decide I'm done I wish i could be done then, not in 10 mins after I've moved everything back to station. Convient tool for alpha island carebears.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

discouraging elements for new player, or even vets:

1. T4 lwf must have
2. T4 Sensor Amp must have
3. Extension-less NPCs DpS >>>>> self Repair HPpS
4. 15s locktime
5. few seconds to empty accumulator vs. time it needs to recover from 0% to 50%+
6. leads to recharger as must have equipment or hit&run as only way to fight even the lowest tier of npcs
7. loot vs. cargo hold. + need to delete drops
8. grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind
9. demob, ecm
10. Ammo

Another reason for the emptiness of the world is basicly the fact that everything but fighting or gathering is done docked up in terminal. A major design flaw for a ground based MMO. IMHO the only reason i need to dock up is to switch my robot and its equip.

look at all the things that are NOT on the terrain while it could fill the islands with many points of intrest and to fight for: Refinery, Recycling plant, Factory, Repairshop, Market.
Even in your gamma base you have to build those buildings seperately, but you access them all from within a central building...

i dont need to mention the flaws of the tiered module system, do i?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Annihilator wrote:

discouraging elements for new player, or even vets:

1. T4 lwf must have
2. T4 Sensor Amp must have
3. Extension-less NPCs DpS >>>>> self Repair HPpS
4. 15s locktime
5. few seconds to empty accumulator vs. time it needs to recover from 0% to 50%+
6. leads to recharger as must have equipment or hit&run as only way to fight even the lowest tier of npcs
7. loot vs. cargo hold. + need to delete drops
8. grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind
9. demob, ecm
10. Ammo

Another reason for the emptiness of the world is basicly the fact that everything but fighting or gathering is done docked up in terminal. A major design flaw for a ground based MMO. IMHO the only reason i need to dock up is to switch my robot and its equip.

look at all the things that are NOT on the terrain while it could fill the islands with many points of intrest and to fight for: Refinery, Recycling plant, Factory, Repairshop, Market.
Even in your gamma base you have to build those buildings seperately, but you access them all from within a central building...

i dont need to mention the flaws of the tiered module system, do i?

the TL:DR version ..

Annihilator wrote:

Whine Whine Whine its all I ever do ...




So things take too long but you want to eliminate all the stuff you do in terminal and make players physically travel to the facility they need ... I can see how the extra logistics of all that makes perfect sense.

t4 lwf are must have ... unless youre a plated bot I guess ...
Sen amps are a must have, or 15s lock time ... dont those cancel each other out?
And what the hell is 3?


Thankfully you are a player and have no influence on game design.

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Brutux, I wonder since when you are ingame that you have no idea how hard it is to start out roll

My thoughts and experiences on this:

  1. T4 LwF - for new players a must have; only later with lots of game experience more you have the choice with plates, before that point, you're only thinking "Why am I so ** Slow"
    (Anni's request here is old as Perps hell - not to remove them but have for the first tiers T1, T2 a percentage and for T3, T4 static numbers; just a change of the current linear tiered system -> for me that idea's double thumps up)

  2. Sensor amps - necessary for combat because of two reasons: locking time and locking range; before you get your first standard one you have 15s locktime - too long for any noob; locking range is absolutely necessary to not get killed by the first NPC group. T4 is again the best out of the best - Anni didn't you say you did NOT wanted to mention the flaws of tiered system? tongue

  3. If you don't have enough range (ie sensor amps), repair module doesn't help you that much, in the time your module needs to cool down the NPCs dealt already a much greater damage than you can heal with one cycle (Not 100% sure if Anni meant this negative new player experience)

  4. See 2) for combat; there's even a negative side for miners/harvested in that one - as new player and as vet that hasn't put points into accelerated targeting;
    first one, normal players target + lock the first tile/plant they find and activate both mining lasers (if thoughtful enough to equip the second one before), the source is often emptied with the second cycle - no new targets were locked in mean time, so player has to do that now <<< waiting 15s just to activate your modules again and in worst case just to find out you had a noise fuuu;
    for vets - we just mine/harvest faster than we can even lock groundtiles/plants...

  5. should be obvious: lost time to be able to use sensor amps, weapons and the most important here, the repair module again - for new players this lost time means death

  6. see above

  7. obvious, each question about cargo extenders in chat makes this even more obvious

  8. obvious (to gain money for t4 equip and to be able to buy a new, full fitted bot as spare or replacement after death)

  9. demob: damn, accu empty, can't repair myself > ESCAPE! < Oh noes, too slow because of demobs fuuu = death; ECM: yeah finally I locked my enemy - Ugh whats that? My locks gone?? fuuu (see 2.)

  10. obvious (no nic for ammo, your ammo normally doesn't drop from NPCs you can shoot down the easiest, building ammo yourself is more expensive than just buying it, vicious circle= ran out of ammo>no income>no ammo at all unless someone helps you out)

These really are discouraging elements and facts, not just whining from a vet. A short while ago I tested the gaming experience of new players with a trial account - even with my knowledge how to use stuff and skilling the right extensions it was still annoying.

All in all, him listing those doesn't mean that each single one of them has to change nor that he wants every single one changed - just two good and wellbalanced (no band aid fixes!!!) changes may already improve this whole negative experience greatly.

About the change from linear tier system mentionend at the LWF part - this would help the t1 market too

49 (edited by Brutux 2012-11-02 15:29:36)

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

So all his points mean that new players should automatically know and understand the game perfectly from the second they log in?  This isnt some side scrolling iPhone game with 2 basic commands, jump or duck.  Its quite a complex game.  I remember exactly what it was like to be a new player ... how difficult it was to learn what to use, trying something, dying, trying something else, dying.  Trying something else, and having success, and the feeling of accomplishment that came with it.  Thats what hooked me on the game. I will always say making the game easier is a disaster .. people will get bored and leave unless they are challenged.  This game is not meant to be simple.

The point of my post was to state that all Annihaltor does is complain. Its a broken record, and its getting old quickly.

Why shouldnt a new player learn from experience that a blue bot should use kiting starting out, utilizing his speed advantage, to kill npcs?  Or that a LWF or sen amp will increase the amount of time he will have to shoot the npc while he kites?  Or a green bot should use los to kill his npc? Or red uses range? How else do you learn the nuances of each race and each mod other than trial and error? The problem for the new player for the most part is not the mods or the fittings or the skills.  Its the lack of information and direction, that IMO causes them to lose interest fast.

People need to die, and die often in this game, its part of the learning curve. Its what makes the game tick. I used the FOOM wiki, and sat in their channel when I first joined and it was extremely helpful to me ... they are gone now and their wiki although still useful is badly out of date.

MMOs in general have grinding, you cannot get away from this. Accept it.  Time based subs have content that requires you to spend ... time ... to learn it, the more time you spend the easier it gets, and the more time you spend the more the company makes ... this is the business model accept it.

Certain things for the new player do need to be modified because they are too far beyond what a new player can do.  Daily Kill missions, for example require a new player to kill x of this type and y of that type, somewhere on the island, good luck.  For older players understanding how spawns work and having better skills and equipment this is a decent challenge .... for the newer players limited to a few new robots without half decent skills, and no idea which spawn will be the correct one or even no indication of how spawns actually work, these missions are a nightmare ... this is what needs to be changed.


My TL:DR ... provide more information and tips for new players, and balance some things.  But keep the edge on the gameplay ... making things too fluffy or easy will not retain the new players.

I want the game to succeed.  To that end any chance I can I will help a new player if I see them asking in general or help channel some questions. I will private convo them, even help them run their missions or go with them and show them different game areas and techniques.  One thing I dont do is make comments in General chat like "there is no PVE in the game" which implies to someone new that the second they step out of an alpha terminal they will be shot ...

Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

One thing that needs to change is the mission system.  I know it was already changed to make it more "entertaining" and by entertaining rather than having to kill a clearly marked spawn you now have to do a  6-10 step run around.

Ok those are fine, but why not keep the old style where i can mindlessly kill a set spawn?

For the harvesting/mining....why do i have 4 missions for one ore type, one daily for another...and never see a mission for any of the other ores?  Harvesting is helio for life.

So for mining/geoscanning let me select the ore perhaps?  For combat let me select if i want a PITA runaround or if i just want to go camp a spawn for a bit and get some tokens? 


***...for combat you could have the old style, heres the spawn kill 15 of these guys and 25 of those...and then once complete interact to summon the sequer of death boss to complete...or something.


The games always going to be strange, akward and boring for brand new players, you dont get your long term goals untill you join a corp, when solo your just focused on how long its going to take you to max out what you need and how long its going to take you to  get the nic to buy the best bot...

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