well as i said. i see no problem that the shield tank is that powerfull. while the shield is active it can absorb a lot dps. and dps is not the answer to a shield. at least not when you dont have superior numbers.

i see the problem in the fast reaktivation of the shield. using the cyle time to just lower it for half a scond so that your enemy can not react to that. just set the module unactivatable for 10 seconds after it went down. that is no nerf of the shield tank. but its a nerf for ppl who hide behind shields and still want to shoot whithout the chance of retaliation. this has to be changed.

when we (remedy) shot at that icus in the tournament for 20mins i had no problem with that. that is a heavy shiled tank. and it can not kill anybody. same goes for the trojar. i saw no need for that "nerf". well the trojar still is good enough, and still very hard to shoot down with pure dps. as it should be in my opinion.

i only see a problem with shied down -> fire -> shield up. and all in half a second. add lag of the game plus a good reaction time of the player plus the next lag of the game and you have no chance to fire in that hole where you lower your shield so you can fire out. and exact that has to be possible. if you lower your shield you have to be vunrable. not for half a second or even shorter. it has to be for several seconds.

I think you ALL missed the deciding factor, it was not the sheilds themselves, it was the spider tanking that made this setup so powerful.

Even after they split up in the last round, they still had a 1-1 support bots. (2) DPS bots could probably have run one shield dry, but not before the other (2) bots could get there to reform the spider.

And as Anni said about difficulty managing, they were REALLY good at running this setup.

EP, gear, and experience: They deserved to win.

Edit: They also had brillent use of the shield cycles and had remote repping to top off any damage they did lose while down. The 'cycle' time works both ways, they had small windows which they used and the attackers couldn't.

i do not want to downgrade the win of the chaos. that was a excellent plan and it was excellently excecuted. sure a deserved win. no question. and yes it was the spider tank and not the shield only. they might sill have lost if the shield cycling would open up longer.

yes you have to sacrifice dps. but what is dps? you only need enough dps to kill your opponent. in this tourny it doenst matter if it takes long, as long as you are perfectly save.

besides there is not only the shield issue. there are other issues as well. but i dont want to get too deep int this right now.

the problem i see atm that this is too strong against too many things. the only thing i can imagine to break this is heavy ecm to permanent jam at least 3 of them and then neut the last one dead and kill it with minimal dps. but of cource that would be a very risky build if they would just decide to change tactics.

i will still stay with my oppinion. the shield cycling is the problem. the shield can stay strong. if the cycling will not work as it is atm.

Longer down times will make sheilds useless for DPS tanking bots.

Sheilded bots don't typically use plates (or resists), because the idea is to have as much ACC as possible so the sheild doesn't get broken. If you start trading off rechargers for resist plates in your legs, your gimping your sheild for armor you never want to use.

However, if sheilds have a longer downtime, then you have to assume your bot is going to get hit, which means putting on plates or resists. But since your ACC is reduced, there's a good chance that you won't have enough ACC to acutally shoot now when you do drop the sheilds.

Edit: And you have to fit a repper to fix the damage when the sheild comes back up

Not fitting 100% for sheild tanking means your just protected against dents and scratches.

Meanwhile, the armor tank gets to fit completely for armor tank, making it the much better choice; meaning sheilds are useless on DPS bots and will only be used on support bots.

But, as was pointed out, only 1 faction is setup with Repper bonuses, so THAT bot is now really the only choice if you want a "Brawling" bot.

Tl;dr - ChangIt sounds simple enough to make that change, but nothing happens in a vaccum. You have to look at all the ramifications of a change.

I think it's not a shields need to be reworked but resists. I mean. look at the greenies - they allhave bonuses to accu if not to shields on all bots. Blues have bonuses to armor repair on all bots. Now look at the yellows - Seth and Bapho have bonus to accu size instead of resist or HP. Maybe these two can be reworked somehow to make them suit better for resist tanking?

I think the big conclusion can be made that shields really are not a proplem. The real problem is the lack of a good armor counter. My suggestion is to bring erp back to where they were before the nerf as that gives a great equaliser to the shiels tanks we have now.
Remeber the way to beat both of these is strong neuting combind with good ecm. We want a good ballance and this gives people the option to have either shild or armor in a combat situation.

mostly a problem for groups that could not hold themselfs from shooting at the target until it got into some accumulator issues.

afaik small neuts and no dps could kill most erp tank builds.

with armor "tuners" i gues you mean the resist plates.

if you compare shield HP with Armor HP you can see one major difference:

shield HP = accumulator * shieldefficieny
shield HP recharge with accumulator 1:1, cycletime 0.03s
if you increase your buffer hitpoints by adding an aux accumulator, you dont change the time until 100%

armor HP = armor * resist
armor HP regeneration = repair module that converts AP into HP with a very bad cycletime, and bad ratio.
if you increase your buffer hitpoints by adding armor plates, you also incrase the time and AP you need to get back to 100%.

about the spiderweb mechanics:
if you want to support a shield tank, you only need an energy transfer module. how much HP you "heal" on the target depends on the targets tunings

if you want to support an armor-tank, you need a Remote repair module AND Tunings for them. how much HP you "heal" on the target depends on your tunings and the targets resists.

Its rather complicated. but yes - the dimishing returns on resist plates, the penalties of armor plates and the kinda broken accu-recharge formula (in general, not per bot) are factors that make shield tanks more effective then armor tanks.

tl;dr: endgame is not in shields, but in pure DPS and Neuts...

ME WANT ARMOUR TANKING!!!!

Getting a buff bot to get you a invincible tank is not too uncommon.

Or right I wasn't specific, I was thinking of the shielded bot.

Apples to oranges, you would use a remote repper bot on both configurations anyway. Only difference would be the shielded one would have more energy transfer.