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SmokeyIndustries wrote:Snowman wrote:I'm just really happy I cross specced into yellow
The tears of the kain pilots are very tasty.
umm, I think you missed something, amirite?
try a mirror, you too can see the tearz!
Snowman wrote:From todays update;
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2011-09-01
Change: Increased the optimal range of medium ballistic missiles.
Change: Increased the optimal range of medium HCL lasers.Were medium EM guns really that powerful ?
I'm just really happy I cross specced into yellow
The tears of the kain pilots are very tasty.
Hm...someone seems a bit butthurt over blues...did someone spec Red instead?
SmokeyIndustries wrote:Snowman wrote:From todays update;
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2011-09-01
Change: Increased the optimal range of medium ballistic missiles.
Change: Increased the optimal range of medium HCL lasers.Were medium EM guns really that powerful ?
I'm just really happy I cross specced into yellow
The tears of the kain pilots are very tasty.
Hm...someone seems a bit butthurt over blues...did someone spec Red instead?
Wow, after all the badmouthing CIR does about posting with alt accounts, low and behold, a CIR alt talking trash.
Talk the walk, amirite?
0110011100001111001010001 wrote:SmokeyIndustries wrote:The tears of the kain pilots are very tasty.
Hm...someone seems a bit butthurt over blues...did someone spec Red instead?
Wow, after all the badmouthing CIR does about posting with alt accounts, low and behold, a CIR alt talking trash.
Talk the walk, amirite?
Most prolly it's a twink of your own buddies, who are just too bored/tired of your "we-never-blue-anyone-except-all-other-20-alpha-pirate-corpses". CIR doesn't do twinks.
Nice try tho. But please keep politics out of this section.
Sundial wrote:0110011100001111001010001 wrote:Hm...someone seems a bit butthurt over blues...did someone spec Red instead?
Wow, after all the badmouthing CIR does about posting with alt accounts, low and behold, a CIR alt talking trash.
Talk the walk, amirite?
Most prolly it's a twink of your own buddies, who are just too bored/tired of your "we-never-blue-anyone-except-all-other-20-alpha-pirate-corpses". CIR doesn't do twinks.
Nice try tho. But please keep politics out of this section.
I'm sorry but I've not noticed any pirate corpses lying around on the alphas, do they smell bad?
Yeah... I couldn't resist the temptation.
I'm sorry but I've not noticed any pirate corpses lying around on the alphas, do they smell bad?
Yeah... I couldn't resist the temptation.
My bad.
OP
I'm sorry to say that yes, EMs were OPed a total statistical breakdown of every gun with all available ammo against all possible resistances showed that EM were more powerful by quite a high percentage.
I ran the numbers with the new patch and it's all a bit closer together, with EM still being strongest but the difference between different turret types not so pronounced.
EDIT: I actually ran the numbers with 25/8 patch, not latest, but in latest only ranges got buffed.
EDIT2: If I were a dps pilot, I wouldnt go for blue either now
I'm sorry to say that yes, EMs were OPed smile a total statistical breakdown of every gun with all available ammo against all possible resistances showed that EM were more powerful by quite a high percentage.
I also ran numbers and before all these recent patches Blue raw dps was about 8% to 10% higher than yellow raw dps.
For mechs (artemis vs kain), the artemis with its extra head slot was (and is still) able to out-dps AND out-range the kain by simply placing a t1 weapon tuning (+10.5% dps) in one head slot.
Also yellow mechs can out-dps blues vs all small opponents always.
I personally don't consider that anywhere near OPed.
Triglav wrote:I'm sorry to say that yes, EMs were OPed smile a total statistical breakdown of every gun with all available ammo against all possible resistances showed that EM were more powerful by quite a high percentage.
I also ran numbers and before all these recent patches Blue raw dps was about 8% to 10% higher than yellow raw dps.
For mechs (artemis vs kain), the artemis with its extra head slot was (and is still) able to out-dps AND out-range the kain by simply placing a t1 weapon tuning (+10.5% dps) in one head slot.
Also yellow mechs can out-dps blues vs all small opponents always.
I personally don't consider that anywhere near OPed.
Don't yellows guns use considerably more AP than blues? Even the extra AP that yellows have doesn't make up for it. Blues are also faster than yellows. Yellows robot bonuses would have factored into their extra dps, but you didn't factor in blues armor repair amount bonus and 50% more armor repaired is a lot. That's not part of DPS, but it's something that blues have over yellows.
EM guns and short range missiles deal there damage mostly per shot, while Lasers do it kinda over time.
there is a difference between dying to 500 DPS in one shot, or to 500 DPS in 100 seconds. The later one leaves you time to repair, get into cover, or simply to shoot back.
Purgatory - no, the powerconsumption vs. power regenreation of Lasers has always been at almost the same as EM guns on EM bots.
Don't yellows guns use considerably more AP than blues? Even the extra AP that yellows have doesn't make up for it.
Yellow guns on yellow bots do use a higher percentage of cap regen than blue guns on blue bots. But you have to factor that blue needs the extra cap for active repping (see below)
Blues are also faster than yellows.
And yellows shoot further than blues... that has been the whole rational for blue superior speed, yes?
...you didn't factor in blues armor repair amount bonus and 50% more armor repaired is a lot.
Yellow gets his tank up front before the fight begins without having to rep.
Once you factor in yellows 50% bonus to tank/resist, you quickly see that a blue bot has to actively rep during combat for several reps just to equal the base starting armor/tank of a yellow bot.
Active tanking takes precious accum/sec which is also running guns, amp, and hardeners. That's why it is important for blue EM guns on blue bots not to sap as big a percentage of accum/sec as yellow guns on yellow bots (see above).
For a blue bot to actually benefit from the rep bonus he gets from his bot (5%/level) he has to actively rep during a fight... yellow doesn't have that problem.
Unfortunately, with the rep tuning nerf of last patch, it is no longer a good option to rep during a fight anymore.
To sum up the last few posts: balancing is more complicated than comparing DPS and listing mitigating factors. Let's just see how this plays out in-game.
also, why is it yellow vs. blue without factoring green into this?
from base triangla balancing the artemis must win with an 2/3 advantage over the Kain in a 1vs1 fight, but lose to a tyrannos with a 2/3 disadvantage.
note: kain can fit two med missile launcher which now profit from tuning crit bonus. makes it slower, but you guys disagreed with me on "default empty slot mass" in that other topic...
I was wondering the same Anni. But it seems mostly because green isn't cool enough to PvP and we're left out.
On a serious note though, in a game of versatility measuring a vets main tactical advantage, green is really slapped in the face there. Where they spec in to getting just one mod style tuned up and usable ( launchers ), people with turrets skilled up are branching out 3 ways by tuning up lasers, EM and firearms. It's almost as if your EP are beneficial in triplicate. I think from an efficiency perspective, green is an oddball and that's likely why they're a rarer thing than all the blue/yellow. That's before even balancing them on a granular scale with the other guys. It's hard not to feel as if Green is more PvE and Blue/Yellow are PvP.
I was wondering the same Anni. But it seems mostly because green isn't cool enough to PvP and we're left out.
On a serious note though, in a game of versatility measuring a vets main tactical advantage, green is really slapped in the face there. Where they spec in to getting just one mod style tuned up and usable ( launchers ), people with turrets skilled up are branching out 3 ways by tuning up lasers, EM and firearms. It's almost as if your EP are beneficial in triplicate. I think from an efficiency perspective, green is an oddball and that's likely why they're a rarer thing than all the blue/yellow. That's before even balancing them on a granular scale with the other guys. It's hard not to feel as if Green is more PvE and Blue/Yellow are PvP.
I agree and we obviously know green has many uses in PvP as well. But you are right, our extensions are more oddball and makes cross training not really feasible. Not only in our launchers, but also drainers/neuts which are actually counted as engineering equipment.
I still love my green at the end of the day, but it does seem a bit wonky.
for the balance of greens regarding their extensions versatility im waiting for three additions:
1. ballistic firearms/EM/Laser weapons (AoE weapons)
2. direct fire explosives (Bolter)
0110011100001111001010001 wrote:SmokeyIndustries wrote:The tears of the kain pilots are very tasty.
Hm...someone seems a bit butthurt over blues...did someone spec Red instead?
Wow, after all the badmouthing CIR does about posting with alt accounts, low and behold, a CIR alt talking trash.
Talk the walk, amirite?
Just because I'm a FREElancer doesn't mean I'm a alt.
But my main is Sundial.
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