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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
Pak wrote:

You'll be offered the same assignments. But the relations you get from combat assignments will no more influence your use of the factories or your refining.

Industrial corporations shouldn't be offering combat assignments at all in my opinion. With this change they become even more pointless.

Same goes for combat corporations offering mining or logistic assignments.

I disagree with this non-combat and combat split for missions offered based upon the focus of the corporation.

Simply put - more options for players to progress based upon their style of play - don't limit it this way.

There should be combat options for non-combat corporations and vice verse.  That allows for cross-functional advancement.  Just because most go focused doesn't mean all do nor should all missions of a given type be only available from a given corporation.

So add more missions - sure but leave the options for combat to work for non-combat and non-combat to work for combat groups - thus all the options remain open.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

I was told that the new reset system will grant us all with 1 final free reset so us new players would get one more chance at getting it right.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Has this been confirmed by devs?

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

The influx of players brought light to a lot of glitches, imbalances and dysfunctional mechanisms in the game, so instead of rushing forward and pushing out new features in the next weeks, we are taking a step back and making everything that is available in the game better. All of these features are subject to change, but their purpose and outlines are quite clear. Behold, in the specific order of release:


I lol'd


i can see who DEV Calvin is referring too lol

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Hugh Jasol wrote:

Has this been confirmed by devs?

Negative.

I think the best we can hope for is that all characters get this 30days 'skill point jostle-that-locks-at-level-6' feature.

so for now.. just dont level anything past 5.

31 Reply by lola (edited by lola 2011-07-17 21:46:33)

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

the players should have at least a chance to save their stuff !!

loosing 1 battle for the outpost, then move the stuff in case we loose again ?

how about loosing the outpost in 3 stages at least ???
ppl will be very unhappy if they will have their stuuf stuck!

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

At the moment (and this is subject to change) we do not plan on applying the new character features to old characters. They serve the purpose of correcting the initial mistakes of players creating new characters. The current system is far more flexible with the available full resets, so old characters do not suffer a disadvantage from not having this applied.

Intrusions will probably be (and this - again - is subject to change) 3 or 4 cycles for a complete takeover.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

DEV Calvin wrote:

At the moment (and this is subject to change) we do not plan on applying the new character features to old characters.

Just to clarify something then, if the patch is coming in this week my characters will be within the 30 day window (from creation), will I be able to utilise the new feature to tweak my extensions?

It would be nice to have a short grace period (~1 week?) for older chars. I dare say most wouldn't be able to utilise it anyway because the bulk of their extensions are probably past 5 anyway, or critical ones would be anyway.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
DEV Calvin wrote:

At the moment (and this is subject to change) we do not plan on applying the new character features to old characters.

Just to clarify something then, if the patch is coming in this week my characters will be within the 30 day window (from creation), will I be able to utilise the new feature to tweak my extensions?

It would be nice to have a short grace period (~1 week?) for older chars. I dare say most wouldn't be able to utilise it anyway because the bulk of their extensions are probably past 5 anyway, or critical ones would be anyway.

Sounds fair, but I can't promise anything. You should still have the reset available if you are a week old. (You have it, right? >:| )

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

That is disheartening to hear. Me and my friends will not be subscribing again if that is the case because we all F'd up with the current reset system.

36 Reply by Hugh Jasol (edited by Hugh Jasol 2011-07-18 02:59:41)

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Times like this, I wish Dev Alf was in charge.

I don't understand why you would not allow for a last reset or the chance for all chars to have the opportunity to +/- extensions when ALL of the new players you have right now will be over 30 days by the time this gets implemented.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Well, the dev arguement seems to be that the current full reset is much more powerful then the +/- that the next generation of characters wil have, so you can use that. If you've already used it, then you've taken advantage of fixing your mistakes, so shouldn't need the +/-. If you haven't used it, you then should before it gets changed.

letting characters with more then 30 days means some players will be able to recapture alot of EP. It's probably not game breaking, but more powerful then intended. I know I have a lot of EP I'd move around, maybe 30-40k worth in level 5 or under, since I wasn't able to do the reset without losing all my kernel research.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

DEV Calvin wrote:

The current system is far more flexible with the available full resets, so old characters do not suffer a disadvantage from not having this applied

Not true for industrial characters, for them the new system is much more powerful than the old as kernel research is not lost.

Many industrial characters have trained combat to do missions for standings. With the change to standings their EP has become useless, as have their standings from combat missions. Industrial characters are being hit hard.

39 Reply by Rodger Wilcoe (edited by Rodger Wilcoe 2011-07-18 09:20:30)

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

DEV Calvin wrote:
Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
DEV Calvin wrote:

At the moment (and this is subject to change) we do not plan on applying the new character features to old characters.

Just to clarify something then, if the patch is coming in this week my characters will be within the 30 day window (from creation), will I be able to utilise the new feature to tweak my extensions?

It would be nice to have a short grace period (~1 week?) for older chars. I dare say most wouldn't be able to utilise it anyway because the bulk of their extensions are probably past 5 anyway, or critical ones would be anyway.

Sounds fair, but I can't promise anything. You should still have the reset available if you are a week old. (You have it, right? >:| )

Understood. I do have the full reset available but I don't need a full reset (also I would lose my knowledge). My issue is I have a couple of useless lvl 1-2 extensions I'd like to get rid of to "polish" my character. One was selected accidentally while half-asleep when I wanted the one above it.

A full reset would be overkill for what I'm after, but the new system would be great as a "once-off" just to tidy up my characters.

40 Reply by Immo (edited by Immo 2011-07-18 09:40:50)

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

x wrote:

Welcome your new robot overlords

The Nians are becoming more clever and flexible - if you partially destroy a spawn group, it will keep coming at you. If you totally destroy a spawn group, the Nians will deploy a different kind of spawn the next time to keep you guessing. There’s also the chance that the spawn group may be an "elite" spawn - special forces carrying higher quality gear, or items that will lead to higher ranked Elite Spawns.

this should be implemented in beta island only, or this will introduce a new specialization in perpetuum : griefing

a new player X is farming arkne/T1 light bots in a spot near ICS/asintec etc. terminal , i come in my mech/assault bot and kill the spawn until all the spawn in noob areas are full of asssault/mech bots, and make the life of newcomers miserable !

even changing types of bots ... i telodica in prometheus go farm t1 light nuimqol, if i accidentally kill all the spawn, and i get a spawn of green tyrannos, do you think this will make me happy ?

even changing the ammo of the rats is bad, because i keep my hardeners according to what damage the rats do, so spawning rats that shoot seismic, when i have kinetic/termal rezists will make me pop my bot... and this will make angry, even emo quit


how about thinking of the consequences ?
it will bring much drama, QQ, emo quit, flames on chat etc., this should be a beta island "feature" if you want to implement this, or at most on the new alfa islands*

*I promise i will be the first griefer what will roam the alfas, making ppl miserable

2)also regarding the intrusion system, i plan to go on a 2 week holiday, and when i come back and find my stuff stuck because i can't dock to take it and corp lost the outpost, especially since remote sell is not implemented.
-you can bet i will be unhappy

3) having 7 days for the older chars to do this, will be a good ideea !
or even better, every 3 months you get the right to reimburse 1 skill of your choosing

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

why not just reset everyone's ep, and make all accounts follow the new character features. minimize lots of headache tbh

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Alfredson wrote:

why not just reset everyone's ep, and make all accounts follow the new character features. minimize lots of headache tbh

This

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

A very good point about the higher cost of reset of industrial characters because of the knowledge bases. Another good point about the industrial characters' combat extensions to grind the relations that will no longer be calculated in production. These will be definitely discussed.

As for the blackmail, Hugh, not a very good point.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

If YOU messed up YOUR resets and are whining abuot leaving plx give me ur stuff before u go.

tia

45 Reply by Hugh Jasol (edited by Hugh Jasol 2011-07-18 21:48:26)

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

DEV Calvin wrote:

A very good point about the higher cost of reset of industrial characters because of the knowledge bases. Another good point about the industrial characters' combat extensions to grind the relations that will no longer be calculated in production. These will be definitely discussed.

As for the blackmail, Hugh, not a very good point.

Did not mean to come across that way.

Just notifying you that a lot of new players (which this is supposed to be targeted towards) just might quit as consequence.

Why address a problem for new players if ALL of your new players won't have access to the solution? You should be catering to these players because they are the most fickle. Nobody will quit as a result of one last reset (as much as some of the veterans and patient new players will voice it on the boards) BUT a good chunk might leave as a result.

P.S. I love this game and GM/Devs are outstanding for the most part. That is why I even waste my energy on the boards. I know you guys are very receptive.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

DEV Calvin wrote:

At the moment (and this is subject to change) we do not plan on applying the new character features to old characters. They serve the purpose of correcting the initial mistakes of players creating new characters. The current system is far more flexible with the available full resets, so old characters do not suffer a disadvantage from not having this applied.

Intrusions will probably be (and this - again - is subject to change) 3 or 4 cycles for a complete takeover.

So if we still have a free reset we'll be able to use this feature? Because I don't want to reset, but you're leaving me in a bad place here where I have to decide between using something I don't want to use but will allow me to fix some big newbie mistakes, and not being able to ever do something about it.

I mean, come on. Wouldn't it be smarter to hit all us newbies with this once and make us happy rather than sticking us with a :trollface: for having made our dudes a couple days before an arbitrary window was assigned that none of us could have known about?

Poor form brosef, poor form.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Many of the people who came over from the EvE exodus will be around the 45 day mark when this is implemented. So it will be past the 30 day mark but still not far enough to have a major amount of EP. Having a grace period as suggested before would help these people greatly.

As for the fear of an older player using a reset to change to something else, can there be a cap implemented like you can redistribute up to 100k EP or so? Don't know how difficult that would be to implement but if you are worried about high EP characters switching and it having an adverse effect on the game, maybe the cap can be your solution.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

I am posting this on behalf of Taco, one of our corp members. His account is not subscribed at the moment, so he can not post here.


Taco wrote:

"Fledgeling industrialist love"

I think it's a great half-measure; but this change won't help only fledgeling industrialists, it helps anyone producing simple products. An environment where everyone produces their own ammo because it's easier than ever doesn't create a market opportunity in ammo for new industrialists (especially given market taxes/fees).

What's needed is a mechanism that helps only industrialists, those who produce items in large quantities. A get-better-at-something-by-doing-that-something kind of thing. My suggestion? Production Expertise. A system where products are broken down in a very granular way (e.g., short-ranged medium EM guns, Numiqol light bots, individual ammos, etc.) where expertise ranks are granted based on personal production counts kept for each category. The payoff comes as a reduced rate of decay in CT quality per production run based on this rank.

The quantities required for each new rank of expertise increase exponentially, but must be set to an "industrial scale" even at low ranks. Also, the benefit for each rank should be tied to product complexity with the largest benefit per rank for low-complexity items and a rather small benefit for the highest-complexity items. So, a new industrialist can quickly set themselves apart from the recreational builder by their actions (building... a lot) rather than just by waiting (EP/extensions), but the system doesn't act as a barrier for industrialists to graduate into higher-complexity production.

I'd also suggest a cap on the total number of ranks, and the incremental benefit per rank should decrease as rank increases. First-time entrants into a production category can, with effort, eventually catch up (completely!).

If you really want to create opportunities for builders to find markets, add "specialization" to the equation by breaking each product category down by tech tier (T1-T4). Within this breakdown, players would chose one tech level in each category in which to become specialist builders. That is, they can achieve max expertise rank (say it's 20) for that tech level. They can set a secondary specialization to reach a max of rank 10. The other two tech tiers would be capped at expertise rank 5.

This provides an incentive for collaboration among builders to create an efficient production chain, contrasted to the current system where every Widget-X builder is competition for every other Widget-X builder since, by and large, producers vertically integrate.

As a bonus, promoting specialization in manufacturing should encourage trade which hopefully will promote use of the market.

"Industrialist brothers in arms"

I think there should be some benefit to industrialists with high combat standings. How about conditional bot bonuses? In transport/mining/harvesting bots, 15 ranks of Production Efficiency qualifies a spark for some bonus to shield absorption, velocity, demob resistance or whatever proportional to their combat standings.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

Taco,

So what you are really saying is that you want a system that will further benefit the Mega player run corporations and exceedingly rich triangle runners by allowing them to crank off 1000 of something and be making them stupid cheep.

I think if anything there should be an effect in the factory in that the more is in buld the more the CT decay. So if you build one item the may be a 1% decay, but if you build 10 things at once. Not 10 runs but 10 different lines in use there is an increased usage on the cts as the resources of the factory are spread thinner. So maybe a .5% CT decay per production line running with a base value of something.

This would encourage and allow newer players and smaller corps to compete with the larger ones by doing a lower quantity at a lower cost and still keep the competition as the quantity would be such that the larger corps could still compete due to the sheer quantity. Think of it as 1 item for 100 nic profit or 100 items for 50  nic profit. The quantity always wins but the single item at a time guy is no  where near the mass production profit but enough to stay competitive. The Lowe number of runs guy can then sell those items for a smaller profit margin then the mass production guys. It will encourage small corps and individual builders.

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Re: New devblog: The Great Big Revamp

If it was per product production expertise that would work. Per tech level would be silly. Make t decay gradually based on stuff produced that isn't in your main line -- so no one can max out everything -- and it'd be cool.

Or add in specialist manufacturing skills that reduce material costs for product categories. Like, say, ammo or assault bots or whatever.

Final plan, ability to upgrade production efficiency for a single product by paying stupid amounts of nic. So someone who wants to become the best small laser ammo producer would spend most of a bil at a single facility for various level upgrades and then would produce the stuff more efficiently -- with a running few for maintaining it based on the total nic paid (so small ammo upgrades are cheaper to buy than med, and both are way cheaper than mech production upgrades). Then indy would have yet another nic sink and manufacturers would have reason to specialize and, most importantly, players would have a baseline level of profit necessary or they'd go out of business/have to drop an efficiency upgrade level.

In general making it so that a single player can't be the best producer of everything at once is a good idea.