Topic: We need more outpost and terminals.

I always hate to make a comparison to the other game, but unfortunately is has been successful and what's wrong to take the features that work out, and still making it a unique game.


Islands:

3 Old Safe islands have have 4 terminals/outpost each (12 total)

3 new safe ones have 1 terminal each (3 total)

3 old pvp islands 4 terminals/outpost each ( 12 total)

3 new pvp islands 2 outpost each. (6 total)


That makes an average of 2.75 outpost/terminals per island thats far to small average. Also this is too evenly spread out does not create much conflict in beta islands but we will come to that later.



Well, how does stEVE compare?

To make a fair comparison we need to equate an island as a constellation in eve. Therefore lets get 4 constellations at random.


Kimotoro contellation: 7 systems 44 stations


41JS-R constellation: 7 systems 9 stations


Otawasa contellation 6 systems 24 stations


fittaken constellation 7 systems 23 stations



This makes an average of 25 stations per constellation and 3.7 stations per system!.

As you can see the difference is huge even buy comparing system average, but why would this be so important?.


1.Corporations will have a chance to call a station practically their own or at least there is more chance of that to happen specially if more people come to game in the future.

2. Many more micro markets in action.

3. Easier access to ore and materials

4. More complex missions could be added.

5. Incentive for small corporations setting up in a small corners of beta islands more conflict.

6. Travel time can further be reduced, (in some cases only), its simply is too long journey to haul materials when RL is on the way I would like to be maybe 5 mins not 15-20mins from nearest station. Ok there is logout but, why should that come in to play in a game so often?


I am sure players might add other advantages. Most welcome to comment on any draw back to adding more oupost even if they have less services, and calling them maybe docking points with maybe some storage limits.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Travel improvements, maybe.

More terminals, I don't really think there is a need for more.

3 (edited by Gremrod 2011-05-29 20:17:48)

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

The one thing I would like to point out.

While stEVE may have different ratio of stations etc. Not all stations have all services.

In Perpetuum you have every service at every terminal or outpost but they have different levels of efficiency.

If they made the terminals and outpost void of specific services then maybe, and that is maybe we would have a need for more terminals and outposts per island in Perpetuum.

Also, you bring up a good point about better missions/agents or as you put it more complex.

A lot of times these better agents in stEVE helped form market hubs and this doesn't happen in Perpetuum at this point.

A combo of specific agents offering good mission and rewards, along with specific station services in the system and adjactent systems help form the smaller markets and hubs or micro markets as you put it.

Just IMO.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

I agree, stations with for example no factory and recycling. All stations shouldn't offer all the services. It seems outposts are so evenly spread out it looks surreal imo. It offer no real incentive to take hold off an island over an other.


There should be heavily built islands with like 6-7 stations and another with none, will make it very interesting to see what happens, islands with no stations should have more resources and higher lvl npcs also a good place to send mission runners for high nic/hour.

This ultimately kills 2 birds with one stone, travel time from point a to point b will not be affected but some where to store ores close by or repair/change fittings or install skills will reduce travel time where we really need it.

PVP tactics also come into play heavily built beta islands will be safer to hold on to hence everyone will fight for that land.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

The point on station services is important, other than efficiency, you don't have to leave station tomdo everything. I would like ore terminals, but to differentiate them into small / med / large.

Small would have 2 services available, one at level 3 and one at level 2, medium would be 4 evenly split and large as they are now. Wilst you could still effectively manage with a large station, using the others would max your efficiency and mean more moving between terminals = more opportunity for PvP.

My other gripe is still that it is too easy to get stuff, alpha hubs just aren't far enough away to make a difference. Can't find what you need? Simple, jump in appropriate bot with lwf and you are 10 mins away from main hubs. If we want beta islands to be the equivalent of midsec in stEVE then we need a ring of gamma islands with very little standing infrastructure and POS. That's when markets will really develop when its a 40-60 min round trip back to the hubs.

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Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Kalsius Dakalsai wrote:

My other gripe is still that it is too easy to get stuff, alpha hubs just aren't far enough away to make a difference. Can't find what you need? Simple, jump in appropriate bot with lwf and you are 10 mins away from main hubs. If we want beta islands to be the equivalent of midsec in stEVE then we need a ring of gamma islands with very little standing infrastructure and POS. That's when markets will really develop when its a 40-60 min round trip back to the hubs.

I see a problem with this one; you're taking only in count personal needs to move stuff. In eve there are jump freighters, titans making bridges for normal freighters, and carriers to make all the logistical work for a corp/alliance, even autopilot freighters at imperium. But we don't have all of these things. So a 40-60 min round trip with several lithuses, in a periodic basis, to make your corp transport stuff would be tricky at least.

I hate stationhuggers and arkhebears.
M2S - Considerably more braincells than Trantor.

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7 (edited by Annihilator 2011-05-30 11:53:24)

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

sure, splitting up the current outposts into several de-centralized facilities, where each building only has ONE use would be a fine thing - image the "city" around the alpha terminals would actually be the different facilities that currently are all combined in that one building.

it would change the gameplay a little bit towards normal mmo, where you go to the weapons-smith for crafting, then carry it over to the trading post, etc...

but around beta island outposts it would cause more transporting -> and with more SAP's the ownership of the different facilites could make a difference (you own it -> its a rank higher then if you dont own it)

But somehow then i would love to have those station interface on terrain, or without that docking timer.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Hi,
I dont see how more terminals would make the game more fun; atm lot of them are almost unused (mostlly on Beta islands and i could guess old alphas). If u had only 2 facilities in each outpost ppl would live in those with the facilities needed, just like now and would only venture out in case they needed something from outside, like now. I liked how new islands have less outposts, makes harder to big corps to control all their territory; M2S may own 70% of outposts, but cant control 70% of territory; also mining, npc farmand scout gets more complex. With current playerbase last thing we need imo its more territory or personal outposts.
I say go gerrilla, find a god outpost ,. set a ninja base and have fun. No need a hugecorp to handhandle you through beta islands; the only *but* its u need to have some foundings to make that risky enterprise profitable.
I think main issue now with game its political imbalance, and how playerbase tend to get sucked by the WIN guilds in most mmo´s, no ofences ofc.
ty+

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Even if we have a low population of players we have to think more players will eventually come in to play.

To have more stations even if its limited in services or none at all could add different ways to play the game after all it's a sandbox.

I hear new players/mission runners complaining about missions being to far out the outpost to long journey times to finally reach NPCs, same for mining some ore spots as just too far out of the stations 4-5kms by the time you setup up scanned area changed to mining bot 45minutes has easily gone by.

Compared to stEVE, get out of station with mining bot warp a few times to look for a good place and you are all set, same for PVE.


Players should be left to do whatever they like most, not forced to run back and forth for 15-45mins before they can finally start what they logged in to do.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

I'd say the problem is that most of the stations in the game now already go unused.
That means there is no need for more so badly.

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

I find that the omni present stations in Eve are a weakness in the game. Station also represent safe havens and have a negative impact on PVP. If there is a station around every corner it will be very easy to avoid small roaming gangs. The only PVP that will occur will be the massive intrusions.

From the perspective of a PVEer I agree with the fact that getting around feels like a job. Stations closer to missions could help with this issue, but it’s not the only solution.

I want an autopilot so I can chat while I travel. http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -a-review/ THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

I think the game would do better with less alpha outposts and less islands. The land feels too seggregated as it is. I'm sure with more players that would change, but as is, the land available is too much for the current player base and it seems more detrimental to the general feel of things. I personally think the new alphas shouldn't have contained more outposts, but maybe that's just me. I'd have actually rather seen one larger landmass for alpha and beta accordingly as opposed to scattered islands. Most of the islands seem to be a ghost town because there's just no point to going from one to the other. All the islands typically have the same general value in npc's and ores, so where you go is really has no significance as crowding is definitely is not an issue.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

i really wonder where you find more "outposts" on the new "alpha" islands. theres only a single terminal on each one.

that all islands contain npc robots of all factions is IMHO one of the issues. in early beta i had to go to a green island to farm green bots, and go back to a blue island to buy ammo for my EM guns. Now, i can find a spawn of each color just around the terminal

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Annihilator wrote:

i really wonder where you find more "outposts" on the new "alpha" islands. theres only a single terminal on each one.

Im referring to the outposts on the islands that were just implemented. They just stand to further make the community pulled apart. There's nothing special about the new alpha islands aside a couple bigger spawns and ore fields. They're mostly barren and you can wander them for quite some time without seeing NPC's and even more, players. In the future, sure, it could be seen as prudent as the player base grew, but right now it was highly uncalled for. There's far too much land for what little we can do with it. Outposts are already everywhere with everything packed in each one, they're pointless, which is why end game intrustions are pointless as people have noted. Who cares who owns them, no one wants them because there's too many and none of them are special aside having level 3 facilities on beta. Sure, those facilities are something different but obviously not terribly important as there's not really anyone calling for easier access or lack of access in spite of one corp holding mostly all of them.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

There is a reason that three pvp islands created three main powerblocs in the first few months of the game. If there had been two islands, two powerblocs would have been created.

A single island is the default self-sufficient political unit because it's defendable and scoutable, assuming you have sufficient active players. You cannot have competing corps actively controlling different outposts on the same island...or at least not for long. It's not a sustainable war for anyone, particularly given the lack of benefits outposts provide in comparison to the cost of defending them.

More outposts and less islands will just encourage political centralisation.

If you want to support smaller corps moving out to beta islands, you need to add more islands with single outposts.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

I think we should just do away with outposts on Beta islands altogether and bring in POS'. It will give more weighted value to holding Beta territory and a greater sense of meaning when you build or capture them. Granted, we have no clue how far off we are from POS', or what they'll even entail, so meh.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Grim Faust wrote:

I think we should just do away with outposts on Beta islands altogether and bring in POS'. It will give more weighted value to holding Beta territory and a greater sense of meaning when you build or capture them. Granted, we have no clue how far off we are from POS', or what they'll even entail, so meh.


I disagree. POS's and POS warfare were the biggest mistake EVE made. They led to the introduction of Caps, Super Caps and Titans. What used to be a fun game, turned into Capital ship blob online! It sucks. Please think things through Devs, before you ever add anything like this.

Re: We need more outpost and terminals.

Trayk wrote:

I disagree. POS's and POS warfare were the biggest mistake EVE made. They led to the introduction of Caps, Super Caps and Titans. What used to be a fun game, turned into Capital ship blob online! It sucks. Please think things through Devs, before you ever add anything like this.

POS warfare doesn't have to equate to caps and all that rubbish. I too think that aspect of Eve is rubbish. It can be done better. To not have any sort of player owned/constructed territory though, makes a sandbox a bit less sandbox and pretty boring as we have it now in terms of endgame territorial warfare.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run