You are not logged in. Please login or register.
So you ran out of arguments and starting to criticize our corp. "Niiice."
Its not EvE. But why it shouldnt be balanced as EvE? Do you know what's glass cannon in EvE? Stealth bombers. Not cruisers which are analogues to our mechs! They are light bots for us. So the glass cannons are gonna be the artillery. Mechs doesnt meant to be glass cannons.
Come on really, all this is wawawawa we cant catch them so please nerf them.
There isn't any wawa, we've killed many mechs using this mechanic in game. They are thin as a rail, and we've done it weekly.
In general it seems the populace thinks this fit is not making sense. If my enemies are thinking it's not right, and several others are, and they argue it well, then sorry Jelan, but use some common sense.
You dont want to mine / farm & make the effort required to outperform speed-mechs. You want to log in, farm for 10 mins to get T1 fits, spend 100k on a Light Bot, and go roam like great pirates. Only wrench in that plan is speed-mechs eat you alive.
You forget, we're not complaining here. We've outfit the speed mechs and killed them. We're just noticing that even when countering your fits something is wrong here. I'm not the only one noticing this, and several others are ( both enemies and allies ).
In addition your group has complained in general when we used the same mechanic.
Sorry just pointing out facts , no complaints here.
I heard demobing was hard
Again, let me explain in simpler words that are a bit easier to understand.
TYPE of Bot/Mech does not determine how it should behave. The FIT aka Modules you put on it, determine how it should behave. Thats the fundamental idea of the sandbox.
When the TYPE of Bot/Mech determines how it behaves, it ceases to be a SANDBOX and becomes a CLASS-driven game.
Now, BALANCE WISE:
Time invested in equipping a T1 Light Bot = 10 minutes tops.
Time invested in equipping a T4 Speed Mech = 72 hours of grinding.
Speed Kain's optimal range = ~100 meters.
Light Bot's optimal range = ~150 meters.
You can DEMOB at ~500 meters already in this game, ECM at 600 meters, Supress at 600+ meters. That's outside of Kain's falloff damage even with chemo ammo. You can outrace speed-mechs with tackle ewars. You can out-tank them with mechs of their arch-enemy faction, even while speed-fitted. You can use the terrain for leverage / manipulate the fight to happen WHEN and WHERE you want. You can use EW modules and nullify their biggest advantages; Range/DPS/Speed depending which EW modules are used.
Glass cannon = Big DPS but very fragile. Ergo, speed-fit mechs. Light bots are roaming/support/cannon fodder bots, thats why any decent corp can produce ~120 of each type with barely budging a finger.
To make it SIMPLE:
You: Im too slow everyone else is too fast.
Me: Try something else?
You: Everyone else isn't supposed to be faster then me! NERF!
Me: You are a ***.
You: RAWR I WANNA ENEMY STAND STILL AND BE SHOT
Me: You are a ***.
EDIT:
You forget, we're not complaining here. We've outfit the speed mechs and killed them. We're just noticing that even when countering your fits something is wrong here. I'm not the only one noticing this, and several others are ( both enemies and allies ).
In addition your group has complained in general when we used the same mechanic.
Sorry just pointing out facts , no complaints here.
My group has not complained. My group = CIR. As I pointed out earlier, there are only 2 topics we complain about.
You can use EW modules and nullify their biggest advantages; Range/DPS/Speed depending which EW modules are used.
and we have syndic, we've killed the speed fit mechs using ewar mods. Not much they can do when they get tackled and go down.
That's using stuff that doesn't take much to grind.
There's just a vocal majority of people out there that agree blues should have their speed reduced or the lwf advantage on mechs penalized. If your own alliance mates and your enemies are saying it, then there's some issue here.
I'd say make the grade increase for speed on mechs much less.
Syndic wrote:You can use EW modules and nullify their biggest advantages; Range/DPS/Speed depending which EW modules are used.
and we have syndic, we've killed the speed fit mechs using ewar mods. Not much they can do when they get tackled and go down.
That's using stuff that doesn't take much to grind.
There's just a vocal majority of people out there that agree blues should have their speed reduced or the lwf advantage on mechs penalized. If your own alliance mates and your enemies are saying it, then there's some issue here.
I'd say make the grade increase for speed on mechs much less.
Blue mechs can be brought to the same speed level as Yellow/Green, but the mission ammo should reflect this in that case. Magnedarts/Composite slugs giving +50%/+25% optimal range instead of -75%/-50% would suffice.
TYPE of Bot/Mech does not determine how it should behave. The FIT aka Modules you put on it, determine how it should behave. Thats the fundamental idea of the sandbox.
Sandbox is relation of players who live on one big server. What you mentioned that called "Fully customisable equipment"
To demob at 500 you need a Zenith. To ECM at 600 you need a Vagabond. Both must be fitted with T4, high skilled, and use T4 ewar nexus. What about tanked Kain. Oh, tanked Kain is a lolfit. Nyyees?(c):/
What I want here is life for tank fitted mech without intrusions. Right now if you are not "glass cannon" you are dead.
*edit: Offensive. - DEV Zoom
Kristan Delorian wrote:You thinking of speed mechs and nothing more. The game is wider in wariety of choices how to fight. Mixed team is what this game is meant to be. There must be tanks, fast movers, ewars, whoever you like, but not strictly "all mechs speed+range".
Being a speed mech is not the role of mech. That's the hole in the game balance! You just found how to use it and you're afraid to lose it. That's not the mechs role. Speed is role of lights and ewars. And dont underestimate light bots! They evade fire, they can use close range ammo to shred mechs to pieces. They can tacle for slower mechs to get in range. They can jamm. Do you remember PoP said couple of days ago when he visited our island on his speed Kain "And grats for that guy in a Yagel, he did pretty well" - that was me. I foght him 1 vs 1 and he left with only 30% of hp. Do not underestimate light bots.
But we are not talking about light bots. We're talking about that speed mechs are imbalanced. Not Kains, all mechs that fitted for speed + speed nexus. The maximum speed that lwf fitted mechs must reach is 65, no more. Then the game will be balanced for all archetypes.
/signed
see cookie I can do it too, but thing is, I play the game!
So wait let me get this straight.
If i tank fit my mech and use range weapons and my e-war tackle a speed fit mech and then hides behind a rock. I slowly walk over go in and kill him.
I just fit how i wanted my gang to and we killed a bot designed to run down roaming T1 fit lights?
This whole sandbox and freedom of fitting is weird i mean i cant just fit 1 thing and handle everything and i have to actually work with people to counter somethings?
TYPE of Bot/Mech does not determine how it should behave. The FIT aka Modules you put on it, determine how it should behave. Thats the fundamental idea of the sandbox.
Sandbox is relation of players who live on one big server. What you mentioned that called "Fully customisable equipment"
To demob at 500 you need a Zenith. To ECM at 600 you need a Vagabond. Both must be fitted with T4, high skilled, and use T4 ewar nexus. What about tanked Kain. Oh, tanked Kain is a lolfit. Nyyees?(c):/
What I want here is life for tank fitted mech without intrusions. Right now if you are not "glass cannon" you are dead, lolfitted and completly ***. Nice, Syndic! Go to hell.
To have a properly functional tank fit mech you need 2 things.... Either your enemy to not run or something to force your enemy to attack you.
How to prevent running;
DEMOB
How to have something they want:
Outposts...... OWN ONE. (pirate corps exempt)
To have a properly functional tank fit mech you need 2 things.... Either your enemy to not run or something to force your enemy to attack you.
How to prevent running;
DEMOB
How to have something they want:
Outposts...... OWN ONE. (pirate corps exempt)
I demob only for 150 meters. Enough to catch a light bot, but not speed fitted mech who shoot me from 300-700. Yeah light bots and taclers can demob them... but there is a porblem... Mechs are running faster than them! What's wrong here?
TYPE of Bot/Mech does not determine how it should behave. The FIT aka Modules you put on it, determine how it should behave. Thats the fundamental idea of the sandbox.
Sandbox is relation of players who live on one big server. What you mentioned that called "Fully customisable equipment"
To demob at 500 you need a Zenith. To ECM at 600 you need a Vagabond. Both must be fitted with T4, high skilled, and use T4 ewar nexus. What about tanked Kain. Oh, tanked Kain is a lolfit. Nyyees?(c):/
What I want here is life for tank fitted mech without intrusions. Right now if you are not "glass cannon" you are dead, lolfitted and completly ***. Nice, Syndic! Go to hell.
Tanked Kain is not a lolfit, a properly tank-fitted Kain is a very powerful Mech. A lolfit is when a blue pilot who is supposed to be specialized in magnetostatics, invests thousands of EP into missile skills just to be able to equip 2 missile launchers. It's in line of people who fit guns on Argano/Lairds and go on roams with that, it's called a LOLFIT for a LOLROAM. For laughs.
Yes, to Demob at 500/ECM at 600 you need Zeniths, Vagabonds, T4 fits, T4 Nexus. None of that is cheap to build or produce, which is why you see only 2(!) corps on the server fielding those on a day-to-day basis.
For ROAMS or for CHASING people, yes you are lol-fitted & completely *** if you fit 45-54 kph Mech. I've told the same to ECORP when they had their dreams of chasing M2S ewar gangs with tank-fitted Mechs, I have no qualms with telling the same to you. It was the truth then, its still the truth now.
Ewars are only as useful as the DPS that can maintain speed to the point where they can actually assist them. That is why M2S is wiping people left-right-and-center; because they're ahead of the learning curve and 90% of the server isn't even at the point where they're dawning on the realization to try learning from them.
Whats a tank-fitted Mech going to catch? Stroll towards the enemy at ~50 kph, while listening to his EW pilots getting *** on TS? Theres plenty of roles for tank-mechs, but none of them involve CHASING someone. I can draw a picture if it will explain it in simpler terms.
Either you camp a choke-point, or you hug the outpost/terrain, or you get with the learning curve of the game and adapt to combat what others are throwing out. Failure to adapt already killed ECORP, and it will just as surely kill every other corp that sticks with some archaic ideology that belongs in WoW, how tanks should be tanks and healers should be healers.
. Yeah light bots and taclers can demob them... but there is a porblem... Mechs are running faster than them! What's wrong here?
Stop tanking fitting Tacklers? I mean my Cam can be demob fit and run over 120KPH.
What mechs are going that fast?
P.S. 150 demob range=dead demober
Wow man you guys need to step back and realize this is a game, stop responding so fast and like go see some trees/birds etc.
Points have been raised. No need to keep posting, everyone sees what's wrong here.
Tank fitted mechs aint meant to chase anything, yes, they are slow. But that what light bots should do. No?
Lets imagine that nerf had happened and mech max speed is 70+ with t4 lwf and speed nexus. There still be glass cannons but not as many as now. Such mechs will be reachable for lights and ewars to catch. More players will use tank fit to fight, to be able to persist lights and kill them. Also tank fittet combats are more fun and spectacular than your "Oh damn, there is too many of them! Run away!". For example I fought with Mara on her tanked Artemis, so I know what Im talking about. Such mechs eye-to-eye clashings are fun, that's what was shown in the game trailer. Thats why I did buy this game. But I dont get it. Im not satisfied and it pissing me off. Why? Because of hole in the balance.
Tanked Kain is not a lolfit, a properly tank-fitted Kain is a very powerful Mech. A lolfit is when a blue pilot who is supposed to be specialized in magnetostatics, invests thousands of EP into missile skills just to be able to equip 2 missile launchers. It's in line of people who fit guns on Argano/Lairds and go on roams with that, it's called a LOLFIT for a LOLROAM. For laughs.
Laird is a valid combat bot.
"Such mechs eye-to-eye clashings are fun, that's what was shown in the game trailer. Thats why I did buy this game. But I dont get it. Im not satisfied and it pissing me off. Why? Because of hole in the balance"
The game evolved, you should too or suffer the same fate as the lolbravepirates - return to alpha and duel 1 vs 1. Alternatively, volunteer yourself for gatecamping / scouting roles more often and fit a demob. You can whack away at said lolbravepirates all day long! Apparently they kill very many mechs, YOU are your own solution! I'll be sure to stay clear of SS2, go have some fun together with the tank fit mechs and the T1 lightbot invader-raiders.
Speed fit Kains are working as intended and, when given appropriate support by complimentary bots, are deadly indeed. I play alongside them most days, my role as a wrangler is in perfect harmony with theirs.
"realize this is a game, stop responding so fast and like go see some trees/birds etc.". Lulz. I'm hard pressed to find a thread on this forum free from your meddling. Pot? Kettle? 
Laird MK II's are even more valid.. you should buy them off the market now 
Tank fitted mechs aint meant to chase anything, yes, they are slow. But that what light bots should do. No?
Lets imagine that nerf had happened and mech max speed is 70+ with t4 lwf and speed nexus. There still be glass cannons but not as many as now. Such mechs will be reachable for lights and ewars to catch. More players will use tank fit to fight, to be able to persist lights and kill them. Also tank fittet combats are more fun and spectacular than your "Oh damn, there is too many of them! Run away!". For example I fought with Mara on her tanked Artemis, so I know what Im talking about. Such mechs eye-to-eye clashings are fun, that's what was shown in the game trailer. Thats why I did buy this game. But I dont get it. Im not satisfied and it pissing me off. Why? Because of hole in the balance.
I think its best that we ignore each other henceforth. You'll be in position to fight with tanked mechs to your hearts content all too soon.
My 2 cents;
In general, PVP with anything other than light bots is too expensive for the solo player; as Syndic pointed out 72 hours of grinding for a T4 fit Mech is probably over stated, but certainly I would have to grind for a whole week of play time.
I also agree there are only a few corps out there with tech developed out to T4.
The upcoming patch which will allow trading of CT's may allow corps with NIC but no Tech, if those CT's actually go up for sale. Since its just as possible to sell Prototyped items with near the same results, and we are not seeing that, I doubt we'll see too many T4 CT's.
Possibly, some of the issues with PVP can be traced back to the bad economy, vertically integrated corps, and low active player base?
Personally, the addition of T3- items from caches has made me more adventerous with my bots than I would be if I had to grind for a T3 item.
1. You (Mara Kaid) always keep ~10 people between us and you, and run away at first sign its going wrong.
My experience was similar. About 10 days ago 62nd with allies come to Hokk and gank my 79kph kain which could not outrun their small bots. (There was about 15 of them and one was a mech).
I go back out with 5 corp-mates in hot pursuit and we get into another fight a few minutes later on the other side of the island. We engage about 10 of them about 600 meters from Dom II tp and Mara and a couple others are hiding (600 meters away) at the teleport waiting for their flags to drop.
I run up alone in my 79kph kain to finish her off but she is too fast in her small bot as she runs around (like a cockroach) hiding behind obstacles. I had to call in a demob to hold her down so that I could snuff the life out of her.
I got 7 kills that fight and best of all... I GOT MY STUFF BACK!!!
Syndic wrote:1. You (Mara Kaid) always keep ~10 people between us and you, and run away at first sign its going wrong.
I run up alone in my 79kph kain to finish her off but she is too fast in her small bot as she runs around (like a cockroach) hiding behind obstacles. I had to call in a demob to hold her down so that I could snuff the life out of her.
That's funny.
Actually Mongolia, the more I kept myself alive the more of a chance the others had to get away and stay alive. By using terrain like a light bot fighting I was trying to avoid your guns and stay alive as long as possible and hoping I could lure more of your squad in.
Thus by diverting your squads attention I could keep people alive. I knew I would die, the tacklers would get me if I ran off.
Ah syndic's point is a bit biased,my mates and some in other clans can attest to me staying with the group and working stuff out with them, maybe that looks like it from his point of view.
Anyhow let's not derail the important point. We've summarized our points somewhat for developers to consider.
The main issue is the blue bots and their speed concerning lwfs, which leads to a certain main style of combat in the game.
Mongolia Jones wrote:Syndic wrote:1. You (Mara Kaid) always keep ~10 people between us and you, and run away at first sign its going wrong.
I run up alone in my 79kph kain to finish her off but she is too fast in her small bot as she runs around (like a cockroach) hiding behind obstacles. I had to call in a demob to hold her down so that I could snuff the life out of her.
That's funny.
Actually Mongolia, the more I kept myself alive the more of a chance the others had to get away and stay alive. By using terrain like a light bot fighting I was trying to avoid your guns and stay alive as long as possible and hoping I could lure more of your squad in.
Thus by diverting your squads attention I could keep people alive. I knew I would die, the tacklers would get me if I ran off.
Ah syndic's point is a bit biased,my mates and some in other clans can attest to me staying with the group and working stuff out with them, maybe that looks like it from his point of view.
Rephrased: I ran away to save my bot. Sad.
On topic: there is hardly any problem with either speed-fit mechs or tank-fit mechs. Both have their goals, both have their distinctive advantages and disadvantages, aims. At least in CIR, we have people who are in favour of completely armor-fit mechs, we have people who is directly interested in what you call 'glass cannons'. Current setups of different colors of mechs, setups of equipment, even character's own skills are directly affecting all those preferences and factors, creating vast choices for players. And I have to notice, it is mostly balanced, opportunity choices are always to consider and evaluate, what makes it so challenging and interesting at the same time.
So why do we create a problem and pointless debate where it does not have a place to exist? Not to mention that fixing the current speed of mechs would actually cause a much larger resonance among wide number of players than just leaving current setups as they are.
Rephrased: My leader had a duel and ran when he lost, so we joined in and killed the winner. We're a bunch of great guys.
Reworked it for you weedy, don't discuss character with me.
Bringing back on topic, seems the community isn't too pleased with the fits/mech types this gives. Even people in my enemies alliance are complaining about it.
Not much difference in gang composistion, etc, mech tankers want to have more fun.
This reminds me of eve before the nanonerf. It was fun yeah, just once they changed it, slug fest happened and that was very fun.
i have no problem with speed fit or tank fits and nano fits arent quite the same as speed fit here, a few kph versus 1000's of kph
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.
Currently installed 3 official extensions. Copyright © 2003–2009 PunBB.
Generated in 0.058 seconds (88% PHP - 12% DB) with 24 queries
Copyright © Avatar Creations
