the issue is - there is no armor tank possible at all.

fit a medium repair and your out of accumulator from repair
fit a small t4 repair and you can't tank much DPS while beeing attacked.

speed is king, because theres no way to repair yourself efficient enough to stand a chance against a hit and run attacker.

the speed fitted attacker has mostly cheap t2 equip because of lower mass, and works with less expensive equip (free slots = no cost)

the tank fitted defender has to fit t4 armor, repair and tunings to simply stand a chance (t1/2 repair tunings are worthless)

tyrannos & gropho are are the only efficient shield-tank builds that can also deal a sufficent ammount of damage.

Bloody hell! Im not talking about SLOW TANKS! Im talking about speed mechs which FASTER than light bots with LWF! This is nonsense!!!

Kain and Yagel

Kain with t1 lwf and 4 magnetic weapons have the same speed as yagel with t1 lwf and weapons.

2 months after i post this, and it gets brought up.

Nerf the lwfs on kain, notice the people opposing this are the ones using it in battle.

Having kitefests are *** and not original, and the lwf/kains support it.

They are easily countered but this "gaming concept" was nerfed in eve for a good reason.

Mechs shouldn't be outrunning lights.

speed fit lights dont have repair - they have to rely on remote repair.

also, kain is meant to be fast - please put tyrannos and artemis into that chart.

Mechs vs lights are meant to win. At the moment they don't. I can get a Prometheus to go 82 KPH fully fitted and a Prometheus Mk2 will go a few KPH faster depending on the increased fitting.

I've killed a Kain in a Prometheus but granted I did get remote repaired at one point by a passing friend which I didn't need but probably helped a little. As the fight become close the Kain was out of energy.

What is the PURPOSE of the Kain? T4 Gauss Guns + Magnedart ammo. It's designed as the Mech that goes into point-blank range and unloads. That means you have - assuming equal signal detection and mutual 1000m spotting - 940 meters to kill it or you will die. The speed-fit Kain is a GLASS CANNON.

Consider the investment though; in order to achieve its high speed the Kain must have either all T4 gear or alternatively, T4 gear with T2 guns (sacrificing a lot of DPS in the process). What is gained with this is just speed, nothing else. 1 Prometheus equally fitted can take out a speed-fit Kain.

While I completely understand why you people want T1 Light Bots to be the 2nd fastest thing in game barring ewars, you're merely beating your own drum. If your corp can't supply your mechs with T4 gear and better then light/ewar/assault bots, thats your problem and your choice.

Compare a speed-fit Kain to a speed-fit Artemis, or speed-fit Tyrannos; Yes the other mechs lose ~9-10kph of speed compared to the Kain, however Kain's optimal range is ~100 meters to utilize its mission ammo to achieve its purpose. Artemis - with Crypto ammo - fires at ~650m optimal range, Tyrannos fires at ~600m optimal range.

That in itself makes the Kain vastly inferior to the Artemis in a 1v1 situation, and probably coming out on top against a Tyrannos provided the player plays his cards right.

The only case in which a Kain could compete with an Artemis is if Missile Launchers were equipped, and missile-related skills were leveled. But, missile launchers would slow the Kain down to par with the other Mechs. It is the CHOICE of those who pilot speed-fit Kains not to equip missile launchers and forgo chances of killing an Artemis.

Now, what would be achieved with Light Bots in T1 fits being faster then Mechs in T4 fits? Only ewars could catch them, but ewars alone would never have the DPS (2 guns, no robot bonus) to take them out alone. If mechs couldn't achieve the speed to support the ewars, the pilots would have to bump down into Light Bots themselves.

At the end of the day, the two of you are whining because you want to be competitive with no effort. Light Bots are cheap to produce, and require no epriton; therefore no point in being on Beta to have the "best" bot/fit in the game. T1 fits can be farmed on Alpha as well. Kinda nice, having the fastest bot barring ewars in the game, with no effort and no tech-grind.

And there I was, thinking this was a sandbox where players decided how to fit their robots.

Ewars & lights were not designed as the weapon of choice for attacking mechs, the prevalent mechanic is Blue eats Green eats Yellow eats Blue. Ewars & lights = cheap bots that offer support/cannon fodder. IF I want to kill tyrannos I'll bring kain, if I want to bring kain I'll bring artemis.

Failures in individual corporations are not valid grounds to be changing the game mechanics, or the game design from a sandbox to a class-driven game. Failure to think outside of the box isn't something that should be rewarded.

Being a speed mech or a tank mech is the role a pilot or fleet CHOOSES. For durability you sacrifice speed, for speed you sacrifice everything to the point of being a glass cannon. It is a matter of CHOOSING how you want to fit your mech, not how the game tells you to fit it.

I'm not afraid of losing anything, I'll find the fit I want that suits what I want to do the best. I certainly won't go crying to the Devs because me/my corp is incapable of producing the gear/bots needed to do the job. Ponti said you did well? Who walked away at the end of the fight, and who had to refit another bot? Thats all that counts. I told RG they did well last night, I still went up 4v12 and came out on top. But hey, they did well so they're definitely doing something right by going inside demob range of a demobbing Mesmer!

And to point out how shortsighted it is... 65 kph + 10-12% Velocity Nexus = Still outrunning T1 Light Bots.

If you want to use cheap, expendable bots in PVP that's your CHOICE. If someone else wants to fly ~60 mil worth of gear, also his CHOICE; but dont QQ when you die. Someone's corp invested time and effort to grind those kernels, grind those materials, grind those decoders, fragments, etc; and its not their fault yours isn't doing that for you.

Archeotypes belong in CLASS-driven games. This is a sandbox, and its all about CHOICE and thinking outside of the box with what you can do with the toys youre given.

Many have thought outside the box, and have killed multiple "mechs" fitted with speed fits,

The main point is that it's pretty unbalanced for the kains/arbalest to be huffing fast and many admit it and simply just abuse the speed. We did it using arbalest and people(yours) fumed about it. Funny how us using the same "mechanic" caused complaints from your group.

Kristan has pointed it out, a yagel with same fit as a kain and the kain goes just as fast. Should be fixed to be the same speed as other mechs, or mechs in general suffer a penalty.

It was done in eve when people used inertiastabs + nanofibers and the change to reduce speed/reduce nanofittings made the game better.

Come on really, all this is wawawawa we cant catch them so please nerf them.  How do you counter them, fit the same voila or find another tactic.  There's always a counter if you can think of it, take them tools available to you and try and think of one rather than stick to your outmoded ideas and stop bloody whining about it!  How many times has there been people posting about i want to be able to compete in my tech 1 fitted light bot, get over it