26 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-08-25 13:18:17)

Re: Beacon disable

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:

*******
And they have not banned for beacon exploiting or account sharing in like 4 years from my understanding so yeah.

My point exactly. Infact that brings up a funny history lesson.
- Remember Insurance fraud? The exploited items (nic) was removed.
- Styx duping? Items were removed AND most of the assets from M2S corp members. I say most because a few got
  away with having secret stashes. The point is: Items removed.

BUT when it came to beacon exploiting throughout history in this game nothing was removed. Despite it having a MASSIVE & I mean HUGE impact on the game. The shear amount of nic & items that was injected into the game made what Insurance fraud & Styx did look like a drop in the ocean.

And yet so many times thru all those years, on the forums Zoom supported the use of beacon pits & AOE. Now we get posts like we just seen in this thread. LOL im sorry but my BS meter just went off tongue
If he has found a new high horse to sit on then thats fine, but im still going to say BS smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beacon disable

so...  Can we wipe the server yet?

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Re: Beacon disable

He has quietly condoned harassment, account sharing, exploits, macroing and deliberate game breaking while doing largely nothing about it. As a consequence the economy is beyond repair and the type of behavior that would get you banned in 9/10 MMO's is now common place enough to boast about on the forums.

Beacons however is something that is just insane. Right from the point that the Devs said this behavior is not intended and took steps to stop it there should have been action if it continued. Nothing super serious but escalating temp bans would have been appropriate. This would be what, fix number four or five after the original attempted fix?

How in the world are you going to stop people breaking your game with exploits if you do absolutely nothing when you catch them. Your encouraging people to exploit to compete. The amount of stuff injected in to this game by it is unbelievable and this 'aw shucks' every time it happens is one of the main reasons there is no future for perp.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

29 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-08-25 13:50:38)

Re: Beacon disable

Jita wrote:

*******

How in the world are you going to stop people breaking your game with exploits if you do absolutely nothing when you catch them. Your encouraging people to exploit to compete. The amount of stuff injected in to this game by it is unbelievable and this 'aw shucks' every time it happens is one of the main reasons there is no future for perp.

Beacons should have been removed years ago, fixed & then put back into the game.

Ville wrote:

so...  Can we wipe the server yet?

Might as well. would put the final nail in & bury this, so we can stop watching the slow motion car crash tongue

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beacon disable

Didn't you move on to a game, or did that tank already?

Re: Beacon disable

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

And yet so many times thru all those years, on the forums Zoom supported the use of beacon pits & AOE.

Now that is BS. Why the hell did we try to stop that by introducing all the limits and mechanics if I supported that? Way to twist things Obi.

Re: Beacon disable

DEV Zoom wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

And yet so many times thru all those years, on the forums Zoom supported the use of beacon pits & AOE.

Now that is BS. Why the hell did we try to stop that by introducing all the limits and mechanics if I supported that? Way to twist things Obi.

Then why have you done nothing about the people doing it over and over and over again.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beacon disable

I think I just said that we tried many times. And now was the time when we gave up on trying to fix the current mechanic.

Re: Beacon disable

DEV Zoom wrote:

I think I just said that we tried many times. And now was the time when we gave up on trying to fix the current mechanic.

I'm not talking about fixing the mechanic, you can spend all day fixing every little bug thats in the game and never ever keep up. I'm talking about dealing with the people who are deliberately abusing these mechanics. You do realize that once this is gone there will be something else? And then something else after that.

You will NEVER fix all the ways to deliberately gain advantage by abusing mechanics, no game has. You will only ever deal with the people. Despite concrete proof - you sat and watched him! you still do nothing. Its the same as macros. The same as dragging red mobs. The same as ASCII art on your forums. If you do nothing it keeps happening. If you temp ban people they start raising tickets asking if its ok before they do it, or they just don't do it at all.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beacon disable

Bans don't solve anything. First off it's often hard to formulate what's allowed and what's not (like in this case), investigating them takes away a lot of development time, we have less players, it doesn't work as a deterrent because as you say there will always be something, and ultimately the root issue isn't fixed either.

Re: Beacon disable

Look how well that view is working out for you. You've had to attempt to fix the same issue four times before removing it from the game completely. In doing so you have removed the point of PVE with static spawns on Beta. Is that fixing the root issue?

Meanwhile assets are flooding in to the game to the point now where your economy is a joke, your balance is none existent and people don't even have to PVE.

It's very easy to formulate what is not allowed, you said it in this thread. If you've gained serious advantages using a mechanic that’s not intended you’re at best abusing mechanics and at worse taking advantage of an exploit.

It’s very easy to track when this is happening – it’s a simple database pull of items created per day from missions / beacons / mining spawns / any other source. Add that to a data pull of where these assets are going by corp / station / player and look for spikes.
It doesn’t take a genius to know if hundreds of blue 1 star mech beacons are getting used  in a week there is a reason why.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beacon disable

Jita wrote:

Look how well that view is working out for you. You've had to attempt to fix the same issue four times before removing it from the game completely. In doing so you have removed the point of PVE with static spawns on Beta. Is that fixing the root issue?

Meanwhile assets are flooding in to the game to the point now where your economy is a joke, your balance is none existent and people don't even have to PVE.

It's very easy to formulate what is not allowed, you said it in this thread. If you've gained serious advantages using a mechanic that’s not intended you’re at best abusing mechanics and at worse taking advantage of an exploit.

It’s very easy to track when this is happening – it’s a simple database pull of items created per day from missions / beacons / mining spawns / any other source. Add that to a data pull of where these assets are going by corp / station / player and look for spikes.
It doesn’t take a genius to know if hundreds of blue 1 star mech beacons are getting used  in a week there is a reason why.


Select distinct count(*) from Assets
Where salt is not null and quantity >9000

lol


They are doing everything possible while balancing what is feasible and the most impactful with success.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Beacon disable

I actually told new recruited members to not donate to the corp.  They asked why?  I told them because once you have what our corp has we can fight 4 wars and still survive for a solid year losing 3 to 4 bots a day and not be freaking out.  It's when a corp reaches THAT point that the game is ***.  I mean literally think about it?  If Me and a handful of people can outfit our players in robots day in and day out how in the hell do you think a newer entity can compete?  It's complete madness to think how much T1 and T2 have been generated from beacons, etc..  I have 22,000 medium armor plates.  WTF am I going to do with 22K armor plates???  The reason I ask for a wipe is simple.  Beacons have *** this economy:

October 2014:

Ville wrote:

The problem is the veteran power blocks are bloated and fat with all the spoils from past episodes, mainly beacons, it creates a very steep hill for newer corporations to try to compete and learn.

July 2014:

Ville wrote:

The only way your going to make 400 Million in a day ratting is if you do this with Beacons.  But then there is a different thing you are negating, which is the time it takes to acquire beacons.  And at 400 Million that's over a million plasma, 1.23 Million.  The T3 mob spawns out of a 1 stripe beacon drop on average 15K plasma(zortarg had a graph showing must efficient beacon usages...etc... and the 1 Strips where found to be the best.)  at 15K plasma you would need exactly 82 beacons.

July 2014:

Martha Stuart wrote:

Nobody produces T1, you just loot it off the field from beacons or ratting, and use it to build T2.  T1 is the "plankton" of the industrial world.  It helps in all aspects of industry from the bottom up.  From recycling for mats, selling for NIC, using it to produce T2, or just using it as free gear to use when starting out.  It is the beginning of the whole system.  Hence why it's NPC seeded.

I'm not sure if the following posts from 2013 and 2012 and 2011 would agree but there is so much dropped for the beacons.

PLAYERS DO NOT WANT TO DO BEACONS TRADITIONAL WAYS BECAUSE THEY STAND RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU WHEN THEY EXPLODE, MAKING IT PRETTY HARD TO SUSTAIN

Why not do it on alpha, cause then I have to haul it to Beta or gamma.  And my haulers have like 100% chance of getting scouted coming in so I can only make one trip before I have to send combat through 100% of the time.  Not worth it.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon disable

There is absolutely no point in doing a wipe when Zoom is sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting la la la rather than preventing people from just finding something else and doing it again.

If they ever got some robust tracking in place and a real EULA that dealt with miscreants then a wipe would be the best thing they could do.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

40 (edited by Naismith 2015-08-25 17:08:16)

Re: Beacon disable

Doing beacons on Alpha is worse then doing beacons on Beta.

There's no risk involved whatsoever.

Re: Beacon disable

ok...
now, since everyone posted why beacons are bad as they are, no matter which island they are used on - is the topic starters question answered?

they got deactivated NOW. it was overdue, but now it happened.
It was announced exactly 4 weeks ago that it will happen.

Haven't checked yet, but have they been removed from markets too, to prevent the important player to not accidentally buy them?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beacon disable

Jita wrote:

There is absolutely no point in doing a wipe when Zoom is sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting la la la rather than preventing people from just finding something else and doing it again.

If they ever got some robust tracking in place and a real EULA that dealt with miscreants then a wipe would be the best thing they could do.

It's not only about tracking the volumes, it's about creating a setting where assets get reliably removed from the game. The killboards have looked terrible for most of the game and no surprise assets are bulking up.

Re: Beacon disable

I remember a time when a heavy mk2 was only used in huge engagements not everyday pvp.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon disable

Always the newer players getting *** over.

Re: Beacon disable

*Secret Server Wipe......You will all conform one day*

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Beacon disable

Stockpiles aren't a big problem that requires a server reset. Most of in-game stockpiles would dry up in a matter of days if there were ~200 man fights happening, like during the SovNov vs M2S world war.

Attracting and keeping players is the big problem. It won't be solved overnight, one step at a time. The Devs are on the right path so far, with field terminals (and consequently better missioning) slowly spreading through the layers of the game, and incentives for people to fight for Beta outposts which will later on translate into incentives to fight for Gamma islands.

One step at a time.

Re: Beacon disable

Its like you intentionally misrepresent how a real economy actually works.

Or you are just this, *Vacation words here*.

I am Perpetuum.

48 (edited by Burial 2015-08-26 09:50:28)

Re: Beacon disable

They need to bring back roaming PVP too not barricade people even further behind defenses. Roaming PVP is the casual PVP type. Casual players want to hop into a bot, go to Beta and kill or die trying. Do a real bot and equipment rebalance, remove proximity probes under the teleports and fix those annoying scouts sitting under teleports.

Focusing solely on SAP warfare is bound to fail. People go there to win or don't go at all. Noone is going to merely test the surface with a couple billion worth of assets.

Re: Beacon disable

Oh look, Burial just contradicted his own post with his own post.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Beacon disable

Well he's right if 200 vs 200 wars popped up we'd be in trouble if we sustained loses every day.  But the likeliness that it will happen is slim.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.