Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Celebro wrote:

I can you keep players logging in, if team effort, intelligence, knowledge and risk taking does not bear any advantages or exclusive content?

can you form an understandable sentence out of that?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Syndic wrote:

Like a prophet ~o~

I've banged this drum since its removal on gamma to be fair and all the way through the round table.

Celebro wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

I agree with adding stuff that you can only build on gamma, that is superiour to anything else. The reward for beeing able to get hold of them will ensure that you can monopolize it due to increased power. This will make PvP more rewarding, right?


I can you keep players logging in, if team effort, intelligence, knowledge and risk taking does not bear any advantages or exclusive content?

Well I think the problem with colixium under current mechanics is that with enough power and assets you could put a full defence base on every colixium spot in the game. You would then use that exclusive control to produce stuff that gives you a further advantage maintaining that power.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Smokeyii wrote:

The whole reason for taking epri off of gamma was that you could mine it from docking range of a base

No it wasn't. You seem to have forgotten how bad it was for the economy to have fully self-sustaining gammas, not needing anything from the rest of the world.

I get it that gamma needs to have more incentive and colixum needs more purpose, and that will come. But bringing back epriton there would get us back to square one and make betas completely useless again, while not really helping much with new incentives on gammas.

54 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-12 15:07:55)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Smokeyii wrote:

The whole reason for taking epri off of gamma was that you could mine it from docking range of a base

No it wasn't. You seem to have forgotten how bad it was for the economy to have fully self-sustaining gammas, not needing anything from the rest of the world.

lol, you have forgotten that you have implemented the "factional" ore as alpha minerals
and the only PvP-risk component in crafting was, and still is Epri and depending on server population, noralgis.
Not that the little variation of items availiable would support something more advanced.

and what is this ingame economy that you are talking about?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

55 (edited by Aye Pod 2014-07-12 16:27:36)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:

No it wasn't. You seem to have forgotten how bad it was for the economy to have fully self-sustaining gammas, not needing anything from the rest of the world.

Maybe make it so that Gamma only has 2 to 3 alpha ores/plants avail on the island and have each island be different. Bergers may have Titan, Helio, Hdt but Kraz has Liquizit, Titan and Triandulus. Everything else has to be hauled in.

If Epi is reintroduced to gamma limit its quantities and respawn rate.

56 (edited by Jita 2014-07-12 16:31:42)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:

make betas completely useless again

When gamma was active 90% of the PvP happened on Beta so this is just not the case.

Moving epriton from Gamma was worthwhile while Gamma islands were shut off unassailable helldeaths that take 8 hours to break in to. That was a problem because islands were self sustained behind walls - without those walls there is no problem. Now all its going to do is make Gamma unpopulated wastelands that are an expensive folly.

We've said it before and i'll say it again Gamma should be Beta mk2 - extra incentive, extra risk but essentially a PvP area that makes you good money to use.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Jita wrote:

When gamma was active 90% of the PvP happened on Beta so this is just not the case.

Yes, and then people were complaining about betas not having any incentive.

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

When gamma was active 90% of the PvP happened on Beta so this is just not the case.

Yes, and then people were complaining about betas not having any incentive.

Well I would agree there should be a progression but since you dont have time to code Gamma incentives properly the answer isn't to just then think lets not have any. Epriton would provide a reason for bieng there and when you have time to look at it properly by all means remove it again.

Can you think of any reason to mine at all on Gamma now?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

59 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-12 17:16:17)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Jita wrote:

Can you think of any reason to mine at all on Gamma now?

you have asked for ANY reason - there is a single one:
scarab mk2

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

60 (edited by Celebro 2014-07-12 18:05:27)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

When gamma was active 90% of the PvP happened on Beta so this is just not the case.

Yes, and then people were complaining about betas not having any incentive.

Up the mission rewards and artifacting on Betas. There were very good rewards with the old system, not everyone was complaining about betas, other than the complete safety in mining Epriton on gammas.

Other than that it would be a good idea to split Epriton in 3, one for each faction, that should make things interesting. big_smile

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Reshuffling the deck with Epi on Gamma is not gonna make the game better. Collixium is the best FIRST answer to incentives for Gamma.

But what will Collixium be used for? And when?

Collixium for structures is good but why mine Collixium to build bases to mine collixium?

And Scarab Mk2? OK that's nice but not remotely sufficient.

This game needs new classes of bots and mods and I don't see that happening in 2014.

Sparking to other games

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Rex Amelius wrote:

Reshuffling the deck with Epi on Gamma is not gonna make the game better. Collixium is the best FIRST answer to incentives for Gamma.

Yeah that was my point too. Epriton for beta, colixum for gamma. (And I would actually split colixum into 3 factional minerals, not epriton.)

The fact that colixum is currently only used for Scarab Mk2 does not change this concept (I'm not counting buildings as an incentive). The plan is to build on this with new modules and robots.

63 (edited by Crepitus 2014-07-12 19:41:11)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Which will totally *** your new players.

Enterprising guys ninja mine on Beta.  That will be impossible on Gamma.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Splitting Collixium into 3 racial types? Sounds more like a headache

Sparking to other games

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

Reshuffling the deck with Epi on Gamma is not gonna make the game better. Collixium is the best FIRST answer to incentives for Gamma.

Yeah that was my point too. Epriton for beta, colixum for gamma. (And I would actually split colixum into 3 factional minerals, not epriton.)

The fact that colixum is currently only used for Scarab Mk2 does not change this concept (I'm not counting buildings as an incentive). The plan is to build on this with new modules and robots.

Which is great.

In the future.

But NOW give us SOMETHING worth going there for.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

God. Out of retirement to agree with Stranger.

With the current terraforming and slope limitations and module terraforming only, every single base will sit atop a pyramid.

Can anyone at all come up with a valid reason why this won't occur?
Anyone??

Epi needs to stay on Beta. Forever.
If Gamma relaunched today with the same manufacturing bonuses over Alpha and Beta I would build and defend a base there. The production facilities alone are worth the investment. The bandwidth limitations preventing a full facility base built in one location is stupid.

Zoom you are scrapping Gamma 1.0 when all it needed was some limits, and trying to create Gamma 2.0 with all sorts of new rules in order to prevent what, stretched texture details??? Because you are the art guy and don't like how the look? The playability and functionality of the game should be paramount over art any day. The beacon system as Stranger excellently put it allowed for incredible diversity and creativity ... This is lost now.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water when all it needed was a little more soap.

Zoom build a base. Show us with the tools you are forcing on us how to build a functional playable defendable base, worth our time and investment again. Stop just testing mechanics "coding" and test playability for once, ***!

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Cassius wrote:

God. Out of retirement to agree with Stranger.

With the current terraforming and slope limitations and module terraforming only, every single base will sit atop a pyramid.

Can anyone at all come up with a valid reason why this won't occur?
Anyone??
because the default terrain of the islands wont allow it in every place with the limited tools at hand.

Epi needs to stay on Beta. Forever.
If Gamma relaunched today with the same manufacturing bonuses over Alpha and Beta I would build and defend a base there. The production facilities alone are worth the investment. The bandwidth limitations preventing a full facility base built in one location is stupid.

Zoom you are scrapping Gamma 1.0 when all it needed was some limits, and trying to create Gamma 2.0 with all sorts of new rules in order to prevent what, stretched texture details??? Because you are the art guy and don't like how the look? The playability and functionality of the game should be paramount over art any day. The beacon system as Stranger excellently put it allowed for incredible diversity and creativity ... This is lost now.
i think stretched textures have been the least issue, but one of the ugliest

Throwing the baby out with the bath water when all it needed was a little more soap.

Zoom build a base. Show us with the tools you are forcing on us how to build a functional playable defendable base, worth our time and investment again. Stop just testing mechanics "coding" and test playability for once, ***!
there is a t1 DEV base on the PTS...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

68 (edited by Celebro 2014-07-12 21:45:27)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

Reshuffling the deck with Epi on Gamma is not gonna make the game better. Collixium is the best FIRST answer to incentives for Gamma.

Yeah that was my point too. Epriton for beta, colixum for gamma. (And I would actually split colixum into 3 factional minerals, not epriton.)

The fact that colixum is currently only used for Scarab Mk2 does not change this concept (I'm not counting buildings as an incentive). The plan is to build on this with new modules and robots.


That's good news, but unfortunately I suspect it will take a lot more dev time to implement new modules and mechs.


Edit: What do we do with gamma in the meantime on live server?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Celebro wrote:

What do we do with gamma in the meantime on live server?

Make people cry.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

70 (edited by Smokeyii 2014-07-12 23:19:29)

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Isn't gamma supposed to be "endgame"?

The economy was "ruined" as you put it by the fact that you could mine in complete safety forever and ever and ever. There's nothing wrong with a self sufficient gamma island, with the previous bonuses for building, PROVIDED THAT THE ISLAND ISNT' DAMN NEAR COMPLETELY SAFE>>> like it was before. I don't know, from my perspective why would I spend time, resources and risk my assets to move *** out to gamma in order to be able to build *** there? Much safer and time efficient to just ship stuff FROM gamma to an alpha 2 and do production there.

If people move to a gamma island, it gives NEW PEOPLE somewhere to move and still be able to aquire the same *** as gamma folks, except for colixium. So now, the bitter vets move to gamma, the new players move to beta, pvp happens, mining epriton happens, game is good. There's a logical progression there.

Look at this realisticly not from some lofty idealistic viewpoint of what could and should happen. There's MAYBE 3 groups of players in the game that will build bases on gamma, and one of them currently own's 9/10th's of the beta stations.

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Smokeyii wrote:

If people move to a gamma island, it gives NEW PEOPLE somewhere to move and still be able to aquire the same *** as gamma folks, except for colixium. So now, the bitter vets move to gamma, the new players move to beta, pvp happens, mining epriton happens, game is good. There's a logical progression there.

Catch 22.  There is no real incentive to move to Gamma.  Far too much upkeep and risk for nothing.  Any "incentive" that locks out new players makes vets even more untouchable (aka making mk3 bots and require *** tons of colixum or whatever).

It's the same reason that while people have bases on Beta everyone does production on Alpha still.  Too much risk too little reward.  See a pattern?

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

That's my point.

If the vets move to gamma and start fighting over that, their attention will be away from beta which gives new players a place to exploit for their own purposes. This is a good thing! They can get their feet wet on beta and should they desire use that to fuel their push for their own gamma. All good for the game.

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

Smokeyii wrote:

That's my point.

If the vets move to gamma and start fighting over that, their attention will be away from beta which gives new players a place to exploit for their own purposes. This is a good thing! They can get their feet wet on beta and should they desire use that to fuel their push for their own gamma. All good for the game.

My point was a newbie corp that makes it to Beta wouldn't be able to contest any corp that could hold a Gamma because that corp would have the MK3 bots.  Also with no epriton on Gamma, any Gamma corp would be required to hold both. 

Zoom's desire to split Colixum in to 3 more *** ores is absurd.  The game has more than enough industry grind as it is.  It would help immensely if these guys actually played their own game instead of making changes and waiting to see what happens.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

This is key, with epriton on beta gamma corps will always want to control beta

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: What are we supposed to do on gamma?

If the devs do not want gammas to be self sufficient then remove Titan/hdt from gamma. I know they tried this before with beta, but now with refining compression down to 50% and adding a 10k u hauler might do the trick.

I also don't like the idea of having the best industry on gamma, there is too much to risk there if they have less defense and can be roamed.

RIP PERPETUUM