51 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2014-05-26 12:23:16)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Rage Rex wrote:

Burial and Shadeless. Incentive issue is pretty old and of course needs addressing.

But even if incentive was stronger to live on Beta/Gamma then current Power Projection Issue would only be worse. Yes that again.

Islands may be empty but then everyone knows a dominating force can be up your *** in less than 10 minutes anywhere. Smaller entities need a buffer to grow.

Burial, I thought you were for more islands.

Betas were actually worth something with the token assignments, people used to be pretty damn motivated to get the right outposts, get scouts and farm all night long. After tokening was nerfed and Epriton was still on Gammas, you can imagine how non-essential Betas became again. That's one of the main reasons I suggested moving Epriton to Betas only.

I'm all for adding more islands but if it was me I would start tackling the problems head-on instead of wasting time developing Gamma. Just Alphas and Betas used to support thousands. Why wouldn't it be possible again?

I understand the problems with Sparking. It was initially added as way for remote asset management, why not just work on remote asset management and trading?

With Gammas the need for Sparking will be back though. There's just not enough content to people there and distances between different content will be huge.

/* Rant off */

Just adding more Betas would work IF:
1) Out of interzone range from public outposts.
2) Not directly connected to any islands with public outposts.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Syndic wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Honestly there's no need for extra Beta's because there's not enough corps actively competing for outposts.

why should they when their chances to do that kinda relies on your goodwill (norhoop treaty), and not their ability?

It relies on their ability to take a beta from me or my friends and put us in a position to choose if we commit to a campaign or let the island go.

Rising to the challenge and playing the game.

CIR fought a costly war as newbies to take our own island against veterans in the domhalarn civil war and we were by far the weakest of the 3 Beta alliances at the time.
JOKE fought a costly campaign against M2S and us to preserve their own island, eventually merging into RG.
-77- was alpha based for the longest time under their former ex-ECORP leader as we proactively hunted them across all islands.

Do you think any of us got where we are by being handed everything on a silver platter?

We could have been eaten.  We could have let ourselves become a shell corp for a bigger corp.  We could have disbanded as soon as we noticed CONS getting help in the form of bots and personnel creating a force we can't possibly repel. 

There are a lot of things our noob corp might have done to stay in the game.  But it wouldn't be our corp anymore.  There isn't enough player base to recruit enough noobs when all we can offer them is a cold hard, boring existence clawing away in the dirt in the hopes of having fun one day.  Meanwhile larger corps and shell corps can offer so much more. 

Shure, there are things we could have done to keep playing the game. 

Really nothing we could have done to be our own corp.

At that point you're better off lurking over to something awful and just joining goons to play eve. Same experience bigger game.

A game this small, with a population this small, cannot support the kind of power differentials that currently exist while retaining new players expected to create emergent game play.

A game like eve can.  Why?  A few million subscribers and a few hundred thousand star systems.  The world is big enough. 

It's the difference between an eight hundred pound gorilla in a portapoty and an eight hundred pound gorilla in a football stadium.

I'll be visiting the football stadium.  How about you?

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Sounds like you wanted something on a silver platter.

Cons is full of new guys trying to sit in bots they're nowhere near ready for.

They took your outpost, go take it back.

Or just whine on the forum and talk about uninstalling.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

There's World of Tanks, too.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu
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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Or you can go take kentagura.

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56 Reply by Rex Amelius (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-06-03 15:31:15)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Slipfeed wrote:
Syndic wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

why should they when their chances to do that kinda relies on your goodwill (norhoop treaty), and not their ability?

It relies on their ability to take a beta from me or my friends and put us in a position to choose if we commit to a campaign or let the island go.

Rising to the challenge and playing the game.

CIR fought a costly war as newbies to take our own island against veterans in the domhalarn civil war and we were by far the weakest of the 3 Beta alliances at the time.
JOKE fought a costly campaign against M2S and us to preserve their own island, eventually merging into RG.
-77- was alpha based for the longest time under their former ex-ECORP leader as we proactively hunted them across all islands.

Do you think any of us got where we are by being handed everything on a silver platter?

We could have been eaten.  We could have let ourselves become a shell corp for a bigger corp.  We could have disbanded as soon as we noticed CONS getting help in the form of bots and personnel creating a force we can't possibly repel. 

There are a lot of things our noob corp might have done to stay in the game.  But it wouldn't be our corp anymore.  There isn't enough player base to recruit enough noobs when all we can offer them is a cold hard, boring existence clawing away in the dirt in the hopes of having fun one day.  Meanwhile larger corps and shell corps can offer so much more. 

Shure, there are things we could have done to keep playing the game. 

Really nothing we could have done to be our own corp.

At that point you're better off lurking over to something awful and just joining goons to play eve. Same experience bigger game.

A game this small, with a population this small, cannot support the kind of power differentials that currently exist while retaining new players expected to create emergent game play.

A game like eve can.  Why?  A few million subscribers and a few hundred thousand star systems.  The world is big enough. 

It's the difference between an eight hundred pound gorilla in a portapoty and an eight hundred pound gorilla in a football stadium.

I'll be visiting the football stadium.  How about you?

Patience, perseverance.

Continue to build up resources and attempt small incursions ino Beta for ganks and small fights. Before you know it you'll be improving and having an effect. I played on fringes for many months as have most new pvpers to game. You guys have a good size player base. Don't lose heart so easily.

And this game does need more islands badly. Once Gamma comes back Beta will open up more.

Oh, ZOOM, how about a *** Gamma update already before the steam engine explodes!

Sparking to other games
  • MMA
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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Rex Amelius wrote:
Slipfeed wrote:
Syndic wrote:

It relies on their ability to take a beta from me or my friends and put us in a position to choose if we commit to a campaign or let the island go.

Rising to the challenge and playing the game.

CIR fought a costly war as newbies to take our own island against veterans in the domhalarn civil war and we were by far the weakest of the 3 Beta alliances at the time.
JOKE fought a costly campaign against M2S and us to preserve their own island, eventually merging into RG.
-77- was alpha based for the longest time under their former ex-ECORP leader as we proactively hunted them across all islands.

Do you think any of us got where we are by being handed everything on a silver platter?

We could have been eaten.  We could have let ourselves become a shell corp for a bigger corp.  We could have disbanded as soon as we noticed CONS getting help in the form of bots and personnel creating a force we can't possibly repel. 

There are a lot of things our noob corp might have done to stay in the game.  But it wouldn't be our corp anymore.  There isn't enough player base to recruit enough noobs when all we can offer them is a cold hard, boring existence clawing away in the dirt in the hopes of having fun one day.  Meanwhile larger corps and shell corps can offer so much more. 

Shure, there are things we could have done to keep playing the game. 

Really nothing we could have done to be our own corp.

At that point you're better off lurking over to something awful and just joining goons to play eve. Same experience bigger game.

A game this small, with a population this small, cannot support the kind of power differentials that currently exist while retaining new players expected to create emergent game play.

A game like eve can.  Why?  A few million subscribers and a few hundred thousand star systems.  The world is big enough. 

It's the difference between an eight hundred pound gorilla in a portapoty and an eight hundred pound gorilla in a football stadium.

I'll be visiting the football stadium.  How about you?

Patience, perseverance.

Continue to build up resources and attempt small incursions ino Beta for ganks and small fights. Before you know it you'll be improving and having an effect. I played on fringes for many months as have most new pvpers to game. You guys have a good size player base. Don't lose heart so easily.

And this game does need more islands badly. Once Gamma comes back Beta will open up more.

Oh, ZOOM, how about a *** Gamma update already before the steam engine explodes!

Our good sized player base has been gone since they realized they wont be having much fun unless they join a corp with more vet support.  Some of them flat out quit the game because there was nothing to do but rat and mine.  Two of the officers we minted back on shinjalaar before we moved to hersh to play on norhoop disapeared before we even took the station and havn't been seen or heard from since.

Our 167 player corp with 30+ active at a time has dwindled to 15 or so, I kid you not, with 5 or 6 online, in the matter of a month.

Used to have 10-15 people in vent, now it's just a few of us playing WoW and science with his new corp.

I'm trying to say, there was nothing we could have done to retain them.  There was nowhere for us to go.  We had no option as noobs to pick a little out of the way place vets wouldn't care about and drop our flag.  If we had, we might have been able to offer those players more.

Really.  How long are we expected to rat and mine?  A year?  Two?  Or just join a vet corp?

I'm posting this because I give a ***. I've since uninstalled myself, but this thread caught my eye.  THE GAME IS TOO SMALL.

Give high EP players and corps a reason to GTFO of alpha's and beta's.  The player base can't be expected to solve this problem, it has to be solved by design.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

I really cannot disagree with what you say about design. Game needs more space, lots and lots of it for new players to find a corner to grow from. It's really *** your corp is no longer logging in.

I hope you do though. Best luck in your next move. Don't worry too much about playing with other groups if not for the experience at least.

Zoom, I hope you're paying attention.

Sparking to other games

59 Reply by Syndic (edited by Syndic 2014-06-03 20:30:53)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

What did you think that you'd rat and mine for a few days, waltz into somewhere and everything would be hunky dory forever and ever? lol

There's 50 different things you could have done. Not knowing what to do isn't the problem because any vet would have been happy to tell you and help you with advice, the problem is you didn't even try. You just gave up.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Syndic wrote:

What did you think that you'd rat and mine for a few days, waltz into somewhere and everything would be hunky dory forever and ever? lol

There's 50 different things you could have done. Not knowing what to do isn't the problem because any vet would have been happy to tell you and help you with advice, the problem is you didn't even try. You just gave up.

If it where not for these stats...

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/223410/achievements

I would be properly contrite. 

Pay close attention to the number of new players that have...

A. Joined a corporation

B. Been killed by another player.

C. Gotten 10 pvp kills...

I'm pretty sure that last one is just me and scary..

One quitter we can chalk up to poor character (pragmatically speaking) ALL OF THEM?

Design issue.

61 Reply by Rex Amelius (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-06-03 21:00:17)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Wait are those stats your corp or all of steam? Because less than 25% using a Teleport would be bad enough for one corp, but ALL players? That's a huge red flag.

Sparking to other games
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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

there used to be a popular phrase over the last two years - the game is fine, its just lacking player.

current PvP activity will see a recession as soon as those new player start to get used to robots above assaults and the costs for losses go exponentialy up and the variety of possible pve activities becomes dull grinding.

we have seen that happening now... i think 5 times already
early beta, beta after wipe, release, eve-monocle incident, gamma expansion.

a game that needs you to "grow ballz" and "invest more time to gain a few seconds fun" doesn't sound like something that would sell well in the 21th century, where a "goat simulator" is something someone pays money for.

perhaps those throwing around such phrases should grow brains, and not think with their ballz...

just saying

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63 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2014-06-03 21:03:37)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

For all the players that got Steam and Perpetuum connected AFAIK.

// Slipfeed, thanks for your input by the way. Check back every now and then, keep collecting your EP, hopefully things turn around here. smile

64 Reply by Slipfeed (edited by Slipfeed 2014-06-03 21:13:35)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Rex Amelius wrote:

Wait are those stats your corp or all of steam? Because less than 25% using a Teleport would be bad enough for one corp, but ALL players? That's a huge red flag.


All of steam.

I should point out that my steam account character name is booobs.  Slipfeed is the second account I bought for indie.  I've since given this account away, so you may see it online, but it's not me.

I should probably leave the forums now.  Kind of pathetic to stick around.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Slip, before you completely uninstall and say *** perpetuum send me a mail, I have an idea you might be interested in.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Rex Amelius wrote:

Zoom, I hope you're paying attention.

+1

+1
-Confucius

67 Reply by Dazamin (edited by Dazamin 2014-06-04 17:34:24)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Annihilator wrote:

there used to be a popular phrase over the last two years - the game is fine, its just lacking player.

current PvP activity will see a recession as soon as those new player start to get used to robots above assaults and the costs for losses go exponentialy up and the variety of possible pve activities becomes dull grinding.

we have seen that happening now... i think 5 times already
early beta, beta after wipe, release, eve-monocle incident, gamma expansion.

a game that needs you to "grow ballz" and "invest more time to gain a few seconds fun" doesn't sound like something that would sell well in the 21th century, where a "goat simulator" is something someone pays money for.

perhaps those throwing around such phrases should grow brains, and not think with their ballz...

just saying

+1

Also bear in mind for Steam stats its not unusual for a large percentage of people who buy a game to never even start it up (Although you'd expect it to be lower for a game like Perp which hasn't had a sale of any kind), or only very briefly try the game (20% haven't killed an NPC), not saying the stats are good, just giving some context.

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

Slipfeed wrote:
Syndic wrote:

What did you think that you'd rat and mine for a few days, waltz into somewhere and everything would be hunky dory forever and ever? lol

There's 50 different things you could have done. Not knowing what to do isn't the problem because any vet would have been happy to tell you and help you with advice, the problem is you didn't even try. You just gave up.

If it where not for these stats...

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/223410/achievements

I would be properly contrite. 

Pay close attention to the number of new players that have...

A. Joined a corporation

B. Been killed by another player.

C. Gotten 10 pvp kills...

I'm pretty sure that last one is just me and scary..

One quitter we can chalk up to poor character (pragmatically speaking) ALL OF THEM?

Design issue.

Steam's stats and achievements are extremely unreliable.  I've contacted Valve support before and basically got a shoulder shrug, I don't give 2 *** about achievements but I was mildly curious in the time spent in various games.  I have stuff that I've beaten that shows never played and games that show hours that I only loaded for 30 seconds.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

69 Reply by Curblugeon (edited by Curblugeon 2014-06-06 12:42:06)

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Re: We need more Betas and Land mass.

How about instead of *** about steam numbers simply say it is a warning flag that really needs to be addressed.

But it is fine - continue to walk around in your new clothes- no one is laughing really not 1 person. No one would dare tell an emperor such a thing.