1 Topic by Kaz Rock Horgarsson (edited by Kaz Rock Horgarsson 2014-09-08 08:01:24)

  • Cons
  • Agent
  • Offline

Topic: The game is slowly going to die.

And here why.


The main " corporation " AKA CIR and their soo call allys.

You know why?

Well in the short run they great, they give us a target to battle with.

in the long run if they still standing on top, They killing the game off, and why?

well it's making it nearly impossible for new players to have fun and that one word, "fun" is the key, if the game is not fun well noone going to play it then.

and i'm not just smacktalking about them, I'm being very serious about this.

well I don't know how to fix this but if this keep up then well, we can kiss perpetuum goodbye and have it lost in the wind.


Rules are No smack talking in here and be helpful and not a jackass, any and all that choose to be a jackass will be will be shunned




ignore list.

* Rex Amelius (troll/jackass)

*Annihilator (troll/trying to make others mad)

*Ville (troll/trying to make others mad)

*OptiKhan (not on topic)

*Stranger Danger (on topic but being a jackass)

*Jasmoba (not on topic)

  • -77-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Told the devs a million times sparks are overpowered

Easily dominate server


its laughable


but hey dont listen to me


rofl

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."
  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Why you guys not put everything in to one pot and try to rule CIR ?
You know what Cesar says divide and rule!
I cant agree with your mood from this perspective.

4 Reply by Kaz Rock Horgarsson (edited by Kaz Rock Horgarsson 2014-09-07 13:08:53)

  • Cons
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

checksum wrote:

Why you guys not put everything in to one pot and try to rule CIR ?
You know what Cesar says divide and rule!
I cant agree with your mood from this perspective.


And i Quote "one that do not learn from history, shall been doom to repeat it."

as Julius Caesar was assassinated.

5 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2014-09-07 15:24:29)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Don't blame the players, blame the mechanics.

If CIR/77 were to be removed from the top, they'd be replaced by someone else with the same instruments to be equally devastating for the game. The new entity might have different methods of operation, giving more freedom to the newer players, or might not. Problem is the mechanics that make such game-style possible.

Do your best to get good changes heard and implemented. It's hard crusade against loud veterans(just watch how this thread explodes) with every reason to flush all the suggestions down the political *** to preserve their dominance and express their butthurt over things that happened years ago, but it's hopefully worth it.

  • Cons
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Burial wrote:

Don't blame the players, blame the mechanics.

If CIR/77 were to be removed from the top, they'd be replaced by someone else with the same instruments to be equally devastating for the game. The new entity might have different methods of operation, giving more freedom to the newer players, or might not. Problem is the mechanics that make such game-style unchallenging.

Do your best to get good changes heard and implemented. It's hard crusade against loud veterans(just watch how this thread explodes) with every reason to flush all the suggestions down the political *** to preserve their dominance, but it's hopefully worth it in the end.



That great, thank you for posting this, now we need to get Good suggestions to fix the current mechanics that are at fault, but If that the "loud veterans" say anything that will go against what can save the game will be their tome, and maybe a great game too.

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Burial wrote:

Don't blame the players, blame the mechanics.

If CIR/77 were to be removed from the top, they'd be replaced by someone else with the same instruments to be equally devastating for the game. The new entity might have different methods of operation, giving more freedom to the newer players, or might not. Problem is the mechanics that make such game-style unchallenging.

Do your best to get good changes heard and implemented. It's hard crusade against loud veterans(just watch how this thread explodes) with every reason to flush all the suggestions down the political *** to preserve their dominance and express their butthurt over things that happened years ago, but it's hopefully worth it.

+1

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

8 Reply by Jita (edited by Jita 2014-09-07 13:45:52)

  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

On a serious note if you want small factions rather than half the game alliances you

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

3) make travel distances considerable

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

Four out of five of these are broken.

Now you could 'fix' this but most of these things existed years ago and the Devs added stuff that's broken them so 'fixing' it would require them rolling back content and so far that's something they have never been big enough to do.

Some examples would be:

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

  • Require you to take your own saps to maintain stability.
    Increase number of saps to four a day
    Make an offensive sap attack take double the stability

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

  • Bring back static spawns on Beta
    Bring back finite materials everywhere

3) make travel distances considerable

  • Remove spark teleports
    Remove mobile beacons

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

  • Remove detectors
    Add a vulnerability timer when undocking or jumping teleports
    Add a PvP zone 500m on the alpha side of beta entrances

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

  • Increase PvP loot drop to 90% adding a modifier that reduces the drop rate dependent upon the number of people on a killmail
    Triple module material costs

No one change can alter the game, a series together is needed.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • -77-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Start reading the million threads about suggestions we have been making for four years.

Kaz Rock Horgarsson wrote:
Burial wrote:

Don't blame the players, blame the mechanics.

If CIR/77 were to be removed from the top, they'd be replaced by someone else with the same instruments to be equally devastating for the game. The new entity might have different methods of operation, giving more freedom to the newer players, or might not. Problem is the mechanics that make such game-style unchallenging.

Do your best to get good changes heard and implemented. It's hard crusade against loud veterans(just watch how this thread explodes) with every reason to flush all the suggestions down the political *** to preserve their dominance, but it's hopefully worth it in the end.



That great, thank you for posting this, now we need to get Good suggestions to fix the current mechanics that are at fault, but If that the "loud veterans" say anything that will go against what can save the game will be their tome, and maybe a great game too.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

10 Reply by Hunter (edited by Hunter 2014-09-07 14:24:28)

  • DREAM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

The problem not in the sparks/mobility or resources. The problem in the impossibility to win the powerblocks that consist of veterans. There are lot of accidents total wipe the noobs on the killboard.
Also there are mistake in opinion that: High-end content should be able to veterans only. That was a greatest mistake ever.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...
  • BKK
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

an i thought ville necroed another topic

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

If there were a huge amount of beta island to get lost in, new players might have a good chance at getting access to all their needs. Giving ample time to establish themselves and fight back. I think that's one of the main reasons Eve caught on imo.

RIP PERPETUUM

13 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2014-09-07 16:37:28)

  • BKK
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Celebro wrote:

If there were a huge amount of beta island to get lost in, new players might have a good chance at getting access to all their needs. Giving ample time to establish themselves and fight back. I think that's one of the main reasons Eve caught on imo.

i think that only works if those player find something to do on those islands, thats not only listening to the humming sound of mining lasers, and pings from proxy probes or teleport sounds.
same goes for gamma (or even more)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Troll Post is Troll 9.4.14 Registered on the forums.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.
  • Cons
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Jita wrote:

On a serious note if you want small factions rather than half the game alliances you

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

3) make travel distances considerable

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

Four out of five of these are broken.

Now you could 'fix' this but most of these things existed years ago and the Devs added stuff that's broken them so 'fixing' it would require them rolling back content and so far that's something they have never been big enough to do.

Some examples would be:

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

  • Require you to take your own saps to maintain stability.
    Increase number of saps to four a day
    Make an offensive sap attack take double the stability

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

  • Bring back static spawns on Beta
    Bring back finite materials everywhere

3) make travel distances considerable

  • Remove spark teleports
    Remove mobile beacons

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

  • Remove detectors
    Add a vulnerability timer when undocking or jumping teleports
    Add a PvP zone 500m on the alpha side of beta entrances

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

  • Increase PvP loot drop to 90% adding a modifier that reduces the drop rate dependent upon the number of people on a killmail
    Triple module material costs

No one change can alter the game, a series together is needed.

+2!


wow Thanks for that post! keep it coming guys we need to get this thread seen by a dev or two!

  • REBEL
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Master once say, "There is never any valid excuse for giving your enemy any advantage over you".

and

"Victory in warfare is often determined by foreknowledge."

Some people play checkers, some play chess...  Once in a while you can find a guy playing GO.  The former is prey, the secondary is a teacher, and the latter is a general.
  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Yes the answer to fixing the population is to lower quality of life, make owning stations less fun than it already is,  and making the game appeal to an even smaller niche of people.

Im sure if they made travel times 10x as bad and removed sparks and teleports this game would be sitting at 100k players.

Hey maybe we could downgrade the graphics more as well?

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth
  • BKK
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Stranger Danger wrote:

Hey maybe we could downgrade the graphics more as well?

didn't someone just request resently a "sprite mode" to have less issues running lots of instances of the game?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Jita wrote:

On a serious note if you want small factions rather than half the game alliances you

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

3) make travel distances considerable

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

Four out of five of these are broken.

Now you could 'fix' this but most of these things existed years ago and the Devs added stuff that's broken them so 'fixing' it would require them rolling back content and so far that's something they have never been big enough to do.

Some examples would be:

1) make station ownership a time sink so that people only own what they live in or have a direct strategic need for

  • Require you to take your own saps to maintain stability.
    Increase number of saps to four a day
    Make an offensive sap attack take double the stability

2) make resources in the area of that station finite so you can't get massive amounts of people living in the same station

  • Bring back static spawns on Beta
    Bring back finite materials everywhere

3) make travel distances considerable

  • Remove spark teleports
    Remove mobile beacons

4) make scouting and / or attacking at least as dangerous as the defensive version of the same

  • Remove detectors
    Add a vulnerability timer when undocking or jumping teleports
    Add a PvP zone 500m on the alpha side of beta entrances

5) provide disincentives to pvping in large groups

  • Increase PvP loot drop to 90% adding a modifier that reduces the drop rate dependent upon the number of people on a killmail
    Triple module material costs

No one change can alter the game, a series together is needed.

A Good write up Jita tho i will disagree with a few things:

2. I agree with 100%

1. personally i would prefer intrusions be triggered by shooting at the station (kinda like MPC & how ref timers work) with a random timer. I really just dont like the current intrusion system.

3. I agree & disagree here. Spark TPs require a cool down. this is a MASSIVE must to have a balanced mechanic.  with out a cooldown it can be so easily abused. The cooldown timer doesnt have to be massive either, just enough to make where you jump require some commitment. (i think 20-30mins is more than enough.... maybe 1hour at most)

Mobile Telleports should stay BUT increase the weight of them to something a hauler is needed for. I liked how they used to work smile

But even with the above the current TP & highway networks MUST BE CHANGED for the better.

4. Keep detectors but give them a small nerf
    Your 500m on alpha idea what are you aiming for with this?

5. No just No lol the game already has these mechanics & it works fine. People if anything just need to know how to use them better.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

20 Reply by Maidden (edited by Maidden 2014-09-08 00:50:45)

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Perhaps the addition of mercenaries of which any character under lets say 500,000 EP can hire, factional of course.
Have them in tiers. And can only be used against player characters.

The level of the merc would be how much you are willing to pay. As well as how many they want up to lets say 3? 100k ep+bot 1m nik.  Light bot pilot regular
200k ep+bot 5m nik   Light bot pilot elite
300 ep+bot 10m nik   Assault pilot
400 ep +bot 20m nik  mech pilot
500 ep +bot 30m nik. mech pilot elite
600 ep+bot  40 m nik.  Heavy pilot
650 EP+bot 50m nik  Heavy pilot elite
Only applicable on beta or gamma islands. If the player dies or leaves the island the merc remains a red bot on whichever isle it was left at. Killing a merc will leave no reward.

Advantages, would even out vet owned islnds. As they have to keep the isle clean of red bots. Would help significantly in pvp battles where vets have a direct advantage in a conflict.  Can be used to provide defense for low or newer corps.

Also, change the pvp mechanics to include players to be able to attack pvp flagged players on starter islands. This will allow pirating which will help the newer player base. While forcing older veteran corps to provide security if they want to move that red con scarab across a alpha.

Another idea is to allow beacons to be red con bots to all players(Including proximity aggro) rather than just the player who popped them. Make it where the player who popped the beacon can loot. While all other players get no reward for that bot.

Just ideas.. Things that I know would directly effect the veteran and newer players.

All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Even one spark allows you to run something in to an enemies station and then disengage. Without sparks your forced to leave a character in station if your camped in or commit an alt if you want to grief a station.

I think mobile teleports should only be around for quick jump and return to mission locations (ie given as a mission item) and the problem of getting around should be addressed by better highways and teleport networks.

If detectors stay in game I think they need to be nerves considerably in so many ways it's hardly worth keeping them.

The 500m alpha side conflict zone is to make alpha gate hugging detectors / scouts at risk. Not only are you at risk on the beta side but you can't just jump back to alpha if your a greased as they have 500m to pin you down and kill you.

The aim of the increase in mod value and drop rate is to make PvP a paying profession. Mod cost on a mk2 mech is around 40% of the cost of the hull currently. Drop rate (I think) is 30%. That means your talking about needing it win over ten fights to recoup the cost of one. Making this change would make it closer to 2.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

22 Reply by Rex Amelius (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-09-08 01:15:08)

  • -77-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Just stating 'facts'  ...so fed up with the stupid accusations about ANYONE ruining the game. There is no *** way that these last holdouts to this game are only sticking around to see it destroyed. Just stupid and tiresome to read it over and over.

Posts 2, 5, and 12 answer OP's accusation. As for what's wrong with game, welcome to the party. Grab a drink. It's clear you just got here.

Edit: well, 1st half of post 5.

Sparking to other games

23 Reply by Maidden (edited by Maidden 2014-09-08 01:27:57)

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Jita wrote:

Even one spark allows you to run something in to an enemies station and then disengage. Without sparks your forced to leave a character in station if your camped in or commit an alt if you want to grief a station.

I think mobile teleports should only be around for quick jump and return to mission locations (ie given as a mission item) and the problem of getting around should be addressed by better highways and teleport networks.

If detectors stay in game I think they need to be nerves considerably in so many ways it's hardly worth keeping them.

The 500m alpha side conflict zone is to make alpha gate hugging detectors / scouts at risk. Not only are you at risk on the beta side but you can't just jump back to alpha if your a greased as they have 500m to pin you down and kill you.

The aim of the increase in mod value and drop rate is to make PvP a paying profession. Mod cost on a mk2 mech is around 40% of the cost of the hull currently. Drop rate (I think) is 30%. That means your talking about needing it win over ten fights to recoup the cost of one. Making this change would make it closer to 2.

So who exactly gets hurt for this? Corporations like CIR. PHM, 77 who have billions upon billions of nik? Or the average everyday player? Just another control facet for those who already control much of the game.

Need something other than nik to equalize the current situation. Why I posted ideas above your post. For as long as nik is the deciding factor in pvp. The dominance by vets will stay in place. Newer players will play for a little bit. Then off to other things after they find out the real situation within perpetuum.

All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
  • -77-
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Maidden wrote:

So who exactly gets hurt for this? Corporations like CIR. PHM, 77 who have billions upon billions of nik? Or the average everyday player?

For as long as nik is the deciding factor in pvp. The dominance by vets will stay in place.

Players and corps in 77 CIR may have billions and billions of NIC but they are hardly the richest in game.

And that you think NIC is the deciding factor in pvp tells me again that you just got to the party. Sit back and throw down some cool ones, you have much drinking to do.

Sparking to other games

25 Reply by Maidden (edited by Maidden 2014-09-08 01:39:17)

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: The game is slowly going to die.

Rex Amelius wrote:
Maidden wrote:

So who exactly gets hurt for this? Corporations like CIR. PHM, 77 who have billions upon billions of nik? Or the average everyday player?

For as long as nik is the deciding factor in pvp. The dominance by vets will stay in place.

Players and corps in 77 CIR may have billions and billions of NIC but they are hardly the richest in game.

And that you think NIC is the deciding factor in pvp tells me again that you just got to the party. Sit back and throw down some cool ones, you have much drinking to do.

I am not the one who threatens newer corporations with newbies such as ND or RAD (Quote NAISMITH[CIR]"A ARMY OF KAINS" at they're footstep. To the only Island that has 2 POS locations not owned by your alliance. With the ability to replace that army many times.

So please throw that argument away. You know its BULL S-H-I-T, I know its BULL-S-H-I-T.

My STATEMENT ABOVE STANDS! As well as my post of solutions to this current situation!

All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War