1 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-06 22:15:14)

Topic: Player-created assignments

DEV Zoom wrote:

- The more complex a task, the harder it is to figure out the proper rewards for it. Missions with fixed objectives can use completion statistics, but when a mission is completely built up from random objectives, our only guideline is the range of the objective from the pickup point (to include reward for walking time) and a very average guess for completing an objective type. This is even more important with time limited missions: if the objective is random, our educated guess for the time in which it can be actually done will make or break the mission.

Carry on smile

A good idea would be to implement player made assignments , somewhat similar to private transport assignments but with a container you can leave on the field close to the objective or resource you need, then fill up with loot or ore depending on a player's request. Once completed container can be picked up by the player who made the mission.  Rewards will then be estimated by players, easy.

This was a discussion I had with Jita not long ago, was mainly his idea.

Edit: This can be useful for new/solo players as there is no need to haul or find the ore or kernals on the field which are sold on the market. The mission maker does that all for you.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

Celebro wrote:

A good idea would be to implement player made assignments , somewhat similar to private transport assignments but with a container you can leave on the field close to the objective or resource you need, then fill up with loot or ore depending on a player's request. Once completed container can be picked up by the player who made the mission.  Rewards will then be estimated by players, easy.

This would probably need its own topic, but it sounds a bit naive to me smile I mean yeah it would be fun and all, but everything in the game revolves around efficiency, so why doesn't the missiongiver just put up market buy orders for the needed items? And if he doesn't need the items, players with the necessary goodwill and "making the game fun for others" in mind are few and far between and wouldn't be enough to keep such a system running I think.

3 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-07 11:38:50)

Re: Player-created assignments

Celebro wrote:

A good idea would be to implement player made assignments , somewhat similar to private transport assignments but with a container you can leave on the field close to the objective or resource you need, then fill up with loot or ore depending on a player's request. Once completed container can be picked up by the player who made the mission.  Rewards will then be estimated by players, easy.

DEV Zoom wrote:

everything in the game revolves around efficiency, so why doesn't the missiongiver just put up market buy orders for the needed items?

Correct it does revolve around efficiency , and doing it all yourself is more time consuming, this would be a cheaper option for missiongivers (as they need to do most of the logistics and searching) , than just placing buy orders. Feel free to make a new thread with these posts, maybe somewhat off topic, sorry. smile

DEV Zoom wrote:

And if he doesn't need the items, players with the necessary goodwill and "making the game fun for others" in mind are few and far between and wouldn't be enough to keep such a system running I think.

If you think players don't need items, which i think it's incorrect like e.g why are there buy orders ingame, then this is a more underlying problem with the game, not this idea. There is no 'goodwill' involved just players looking for a cheaper more enticing option than just placing buy orders.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

Celebro wrote:

Correct it does revolve around efficiency , and doing it all yourself is more time consuming, this would be a cheaper option for missiongivers (as they need to do most of the logistics and searching) , than just placing buy orders.

Do I take it right that this cheaper option means no market fees? Does that really make a large enough difference?

Celebro wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

And if he doesn't need the items, players with the necessary goodwill and "making the game fun for others" in mind are few and far between and wouldn't be enough to keep such a system running I think.

If you think players don't need items, which i think it's incorrect like e.g why are there buy orders ingame, then this is a more underlying problem with the game, not this idea. There is no 'goodwill' involved just players looking for a cheaper more enticing option than just placing buy orders.

What I meant is that the system would be quite vulnerable to supply/demand fluctuations. And for example veterans would likely need items that only a few other players would be able to get in the first place. AND if we're talking about anything valuable, maybe they will just keep it for themselves.

As I see it, the whole thing really hangs on whether bypassing market fees is worth the whole hassle or not.

Re: Player-created assignments

Its not about by passing market fees, you could add assignment creation fee as a NIC sink if needed. Its cheaper for the simple reason the mission giver is doing 30% (or whatever %) of the work with the hauling and finding the right spot for the resource required.

Let put it this way, a player wants to make NIC filling up buy orders, but has to find that resources, haul it back to station and all that. With player made missions he can just accept X mission for lets say 100 hero kernels , it will indicate the exact spot to farm them given by the mission giver upon mission creation, once he places the kernals on the mission container he gets the reward, he should get less than the buy orders, but that all depends on a player driven economy.

Dev zoom wrote:

And for example veterans would likely need items that only a few other players would be able to get in the first place. AND if we're talking about anything valuable, maybe they will just keep it for themselves.

That's a population problem, valuable stuff has a price no matter how high, but there are so little players right now no one is willing to pay enough, because they can get it themselves because we are all bitter vets with our 3-5 accounts. But was was hoping this to change with steam. smile

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

Celebro wrote:

Let put it this way, a player wants to make NIC filling up buy orders, but has to find that resources, haul it back to station and all that. With player made missions he can just accept X mission for lets say 100 hero kernels , it will indicate the exact spot to farm them given by the mission giver upon mission creation, once he places the kernals on the mission container he gets the reward, he should get less than the buy orders, but that all depends on a player driven economy.

The extra thing here could be that the mission giver could offer items as a reward instead of just NIC (something he produces for example). This is something that would differentiate it from the market, and in this sense it's more close to a contract system.

Re: Player-created assignments

DEV Zoom wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Let put it this way, a player wants to make NIC filling up buy orders, but has to find that resources, haul it back to station and all that. With player made missions he can just accept X mission for lets say 100 hero kernels , it will indicate the exact spot to farm them given by the mission giver upon mission creation, once he places the kernals on the mission container he gets the reward, he should get less than the buy orders, but that all depends on a player driven economy.

The extra thing here could be that the mission giver could offer items as a reward instead of just NIC (something he produces for example). This is something that would differentiate it from the market, and in this sense it's more close to a contract system.

Can work just as well, why not?. I know it competes with the market, but it does create more options for both the mission creator (gets cheaper stuff but has more work involved) and missioner has less walking around to do, but gets less reward than just selling the stuff., The option to use the market is still there. What it does well is it helps solo and specially new players who don't really know what to do or where to find those kernals / ores to fill out that X buy order. This won't fix NPC assignments, it will just add another layer to the new system.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

I think this could work well together with our planned "assignment dispenser buildings" on the terrain. Meditate on this, we will.

9 (edited by Celebro 2014-04-09 17:06:44)

Re: Player-created assignments

Missed your last reply. Good thing you are thinking about this idea smile, great addition to the mission overhaul, which will help new players find a direction in game even if they would like to run solo.

Sometimes is hard for new players to find good direction/goal in game where there is loads of stuff to choose from specially if you are not used or played a sandbox game before.

Dispenser buildings also sound like great stuff and can't wait to see it happen after Steam release.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

IMO and I don't want to rain on anyone parade but I highly doubt anyone would use this.  Since the transport containers seem to working great.

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Re: Player-created assignments

Ville wrote:

IMO and I don't want to rain on anyone parade but I highly doubt anyone would use this.  Since the transport containers seem to working great.


Yes transport containers are fine, and it does not replace it. If you are talking about the private assignments those are transports between terminals. These are from 'farming fields' to terminals or just farm and some one will come to collect and you get your cut.

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Re: Player-created assignments

I mean theres no one using this feature( and by no one I mean less than 4 people.)

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13 (edited by Celebro 2014-04-09 18:55:16)

Re: Player-created assignments

Ville wrote:

I mean theres no one using this feature( and by no one I mean less than 4 people.)


The market is kind off dead too, I would leave that due to lack of players and the private assignments are really hidden in a corner tab. Not many new player know it exists.

Edit: There also seems lacking some features like corp transports or to assign to a specific player or corp.

Could come in handy to any corp leader to give some ready made assignment missions in corp as well as for the public.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Player-created assignments

The markets far from dead smile

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