Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Got a lawn chair and got some rays ,,, think i had a case of cabin fever,  went camping,,,bla bla.

Sometimes i think i am a blind man describing a elephant. 

excuse me while i go play...:)

177

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

but the difference between a fully set up t3 base and a t1 is about 6%. Thats marginally worth it if you factor in the refine cost as well as its a one time thing.

If its similarly meh on proto's then can you imagine doing it 10X? it would be ok as a passiove thing but not as a long term lets go for it goal.

The bonus on the other hand CANT be good or it would destabalise the market making someone who has it completed significantly cheaper.

All in all its a *** idea.

Again what i would suggest is that it changes the amount of fragments you need to use with a 50% reduction perhaps. That at least would be worthwhile.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

178

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

So here is the thing with the Corp Research, not every corp will use it, it's not meant for every corp, it is not a Newbie Corp tool.

This isn't a digression to X20, x25, x100 issue; this is just how/if Corps will choose to use it in the first place.

Corp research is going to require cooperation within the corp to accomplish. Not all corps are set up this way, in fact, many corps are not. The corps are just places where the individual players hangout because they get some benefits in storage and access to other players and some resources. Generally these corps will have a small cadre of dedicated players, but in general the idea of the entire corp working toward some goal just doesn't work.

To cut to the chase here.

Corps that work together will get corporate research done, while corps that do not won't, regardless of the multiplier.

I point to the aspect of small corps which still, after years of playing, have still not gotten even a single PT'er to 100%. The research change isn't going to make research 'faster', it is just going to make it more directed.

I'll go out on a limb here and say, the people/corps that have currently completed the tree, will do so again regardless of the multiplier. And those who have not, still wouldn't, even at x0; because they essentially have x0 now and didn't.

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

What's with this obsession of owning all tech in-game?

Just for comparison sake, I never met anyone that has all BPOs in Eve, or the equivalent in any other decent game. Having all BPOs could be worth around a trillion isk that's like $30,000 RL value.

RIP PERPETUUM

180 (edited by Tux 2013-05-13 21:52:42)

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Celebro wrote:

What's with this obsession of owning all tech in-game?

Just for comparison sake, I never met anyone that has all BPOs in Eve, or the equivalent in any other decent game. Having all BPOs could be worth around a trillion isk that's like $30,000 RL value.

Its the design of the system...

If Perpetuum were a game where the developers didnt want everyone to have access to all of the prototypes in game they would have made it that way from the onset, by doing "world drops" or similar methods akin to the current artifact system to make the technology very limited and only so much could be produced given the finite amount of prototypes available.

This can be accomplished in future technology by requiring items similar to cortex's but they need to be in very limited quantities in order for the system to be "exciting"

the main problem with perp production as it stands now is that even though its full loot drop its disappointing because you can make everything that drops. I think by adding equipment to the game that is really "rare" (black Mechs, and other tournament items "wall shield hardener", "Indy 500 Frame") it will push more interaction pvp/pve so long as they can be attained ( hardcore grind or rare artifact, etc...)

But these items should definitely be the next tier of stuff not re worked versions of what we already have.


***
and even in eve you could just outright BUY many of the BPO's it just took years to make them better through the research system.

now the faction and T2/T3 stuff is a different story

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Tux wrote:

Its the design of the system...

Yes exactly, the system is flawed, not sure if they underestimated the players. They did panic once and nerfed it by 50% kernal drops.

To foster a healthy market there needs to be a system where not everyone can build everything, not only for the market sake, but also to improve player interactions in either PVP form or just plain communication. Right now most vet's gameplay is go to your walled up gamma 'hole' and farm/build in complete saftey. This does not help the ideal single server sandbox the Devs envisioned.

RIP PERPETUUM

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Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Celebro wrote:

To foster a healthy market there needs to be a system where not everyone can build everything

Either that or really take a good look at build times. ...

Why does a Terminal only take 24hours to build ... i think it should be more like 10 to 20 days T1 / 20-40 T2 30 to 60 for T3 ...

why does a MK2 heavy Mech only take ~12 hours to build this should be about 2 days at least.

The system as it is has huge amounts of throughput which drastically under values many items in game ... if thngs took a little longer in time to build then they may have more "value" to players ... jacking up mineral cost of things wont add value in the correct way ... after all time is the most valued commodity ever ...

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

We do this dance every time we get into discussing Perp, thinking up a thousand and one ways how Perp would be better if X, Z, Y. Then the hungry dudes do their own thing and screw everything up because they never realize how bad their infallible genius idea will be exploited. lol

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Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Funny, I thought we have this dance everytime because everyone

A) has an opinion
B) access to internet
C) is an ***

Any game I've ever played has a player base that cannot understand how the designers left out x, refused to see y, and have no idea why they didn't think of z. Perp is no different.

One thing is clear, regardless of how small the Dev team is, or the health of the game; the Devs here have been far more available here than in EvE.

185 (edited by Syndic 2013-05-15 16:01:37)

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Every indy game I played the devs were always very available and approachable since they're always scrambling to get more subs. EVE was no different, since it always leads to a T20 incident of sorts.

But since we're generalizing, every game I played where the Devs automatically assumed they know best and don't need a test server or an entire QA department of interns for their patches, invariably crashed and burned. smile

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186 (edited by Celebro 2013-05-15 16:25:15)

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

Syndic wrote:

Every indy game I played the devs were always very available and approachable since they're always scrambling to get more subs. EVE was no different, since it always leads to a T20 incident of sorts.

But since we're generalizing, every game I played where the Devs automatically assumed they know best and don't need a test server or an entire QA department of interns for their patches, invariably crashed and burned. smile

How many more posts that 'The Devs f***up the game' do I have to read again and again, before you let it go and move on. Do you think CCP or any other company listen to the player base all the time,not even close, developers  do what they think its best with the resources and information they have.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

I know I shouldn't feed the troll but:
1. I don't think we ever said we know best.
2. "We don't need a test server" and "We don't HAVE a test server (physically)" are two different things.

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

The end result is still always the same unfortunately.

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189

Re: New devblog: New tech trees

DEV Zoom wrote:

I know I shouldn't feed the troll but:
1. I don't think we ever said we know best.
2. "We don't need a test server" and "We don't HAVE a test server (physically)" are two different things.

The player base put in a lot of 'free' time on the test server for gamma.

I think AC would have gotten a lot more value creating some directed content instead of just opening it up and letting us go, but again there's only 26 hours in a day for people to work.

Specifically for something like the tech tree, I don't see a test server helping here. The time frames are just too long to make it reasonable; also no one is going to grind on a test server for weeks just to see if the multiplier is set correctly.

However, the new tech seems to lift the virutal veil (losing the rnd factor), so there doesn't seem to be any reason not to reveal the design for feedback before going live with it. This isn't a design by commitee, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to ask if this dress makes my *** look big (even if you don't like the answer, it's good to know).