1 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-03-14 16:54:09)

Topic: Terraforming undoing

well we all know we do terraforming here and we do terraforming there. and in the end there are a lot of places on the island that do not look very good.

of cource ppl will never undo their terraforming because it would cost as much as it was to build and also mostly we have no access to the data if the original form of the island.

so my idea here is that we could create some form of deployable beacon. this one will work on its own and slowly terraform (erode) the land back to its original state. radius has to be significant, maybe even multible types from 500m to 2km radius. of cource they should not be too expensive or nobody will use them.

of cource it has to be ballanced so it can not be used offensively. restrictions like:
- have to have terminal on the island.
- no buildings or players in radius
- slow progress (takes 2 weeks to get the original back)
- easy to destroy
- realy bad masking
- and maybe more...

something like this might be a good solution to ppl that acualy care how their gameworld looks. and with the right restrictions it should be impossible to abuse it (yea i know that will be the hard part).

Re: Terraforming undoing

Very good idea! smile

Terraforming does need a rebalancing look or ten tho.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

a. why reverting to the previous state of the island, when it was generated by a RNG generator?
b. why is it necessary to to be done by player?

instead of trying to find 100eds of possible ways to exploit it and restrict usage of an ingame item so it cannot be exploited, the server should do that all the time on its own.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … mentation/

the player action should be about "conservation" of terraformed terrain to prevent erosion - eg no errosion within active bases through better concrete system (eg. Zerg creep-colony like )

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Re: Terraforming undoing

Anni just no, stop talking and go back to your hole.  Zortarg I think this is freaking brilliant and a great idea. +1 from me.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

Anni vacate the premises. It's long overdue.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

+1 if that will be long enough to prevent exploits.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

+1 to Zortag.
gtfo to Anni.

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8 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-03-16 02:45:46)

Re: Terraforming undoing

Players eroding terraforming could be ok i think but balancing this would be very hard.

Having "Decay" of TFing being done by the server would be an even bigger mistake than the current modular wall system is.

Decay or erosion call it what you may doesnt actually address the real issue: 
Terra forming needs balancing! And just introducing a new module wouldnt fix that. The way it fundamentally works needs to be changed.

Terraforming needs to do 2 things:
1. A way to allow the building of PBS by flattening out the land.
2. To provide basic defense to a base (aka take away the ability for mechs to walk into a base wheres the defenders dont want them = Walls).


Lets ask this Question, Why do Designers use  terraform  to build walls around bases & TPs among other things? Because its the best way. Until this changes no new modules or erosion will fix the core design problems that TFing have.

How can this situation be changed?

1. Change the way TFing works. For instance: If you "pull up" 1 tile then the surounding tiles will be effected, The higher you go the higher the surrounding tiles will go to & increase the radius of tiles that are effected.
Doing this will still allow the creation of impassable Terrain But not as harsh as we currently can do. Second it will not bring the terrain rendering that we  see now, TBH this alone makes me question the Devs, I dont get why they would allow such an ugly Mechanic into a game that doesnt look to bad graphics wise.

2. Remove the Current modular Walls. They are badly designed mechanic that doesnt fit properly into this game. And should never have been allowed to be used on Beta! Beta isnt for Siege Warfare Gamma is.
Walls need to be rethought & made into a proper & real Modular system that base builders will use to defend their Structures.
The possibilities for what walls can do & how they could be used would be awesome. 

3. GATES. God really we need to be able to build gates That operate on standings. i mean all it needs to be is a shield that either lets you pass thru it or not. That can be Destroyed if undefended.

Terraforming needs more love & im saddend its a year later & it still hasnt gotten that love the devs need to give it.
But Heres the really Big problem. Gamma In conjunction with Terra Forming lays open one of the biggest flaws this game has: Movement & access to & from a Gamma island.

If i had the will to & money isnt a problem for a player as old as me in this game, I can make a design for a gamma island defense that is impossible for ANY enemy to defeat No matter their Numbers. & this could be built in a few weeks. Giving me a 100% safe island that i could AFK mine in & only ever die to NPCs smile ALL this is due to the way TFing works & because an enemy can only access my Island at a few Set points Teleports.
Untill we can move between islands with out the need for teleports Gamma Islands will always be the single most unbalanced game play this game has.

No new (land traveling) Mechs, bots or Modules will change that. Even the addition of Artillery wouldn't bring Balance to Gamma. Remember Balance is need for both attacker & defender.

I have more i could say but :effort: tho ide be happy to chat about this on TS any time smile

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Re: Terraforming undoing

yes obi i agree with a lot (not with all) of what you have written.
gama and especialyl terraforming still needs a lot of work. my idea is quite simple and easy to do, thats why i brought it up. i have a big list about gamma and all the problerms there myself, but as long as the devs are buisy on the other fronts there is no reason to bring it up. same as the other usual... gamma ballancing would be nice, but first we need more ppl ingame. devs know it and thats the reason we havent seen much love for gamma in the last couple of months.
thats why i am waiting patiently as well, but as everywhere patience is not endless...

Re: Terraforming undoing

How about only allowing a certain height change from original terrain, say 150m in either direction.

Solves a few issues players have mentioned re terraforming and presents some new challenges.

11 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-15 15:02:29)

Re: Terraforming undoing

Another horrible idea. "Hey devs I would like a terraform reset button pls" the only remotely interesting thing would be offensive use, which surprise, surprise you don't want. I can't help thinking a lot of you guys would be much happier playing Sim City. Their server performance is very similar to Perpetuums, so you'll feel right at home. big_smile

Re: Terraforming undoing

Actually Sim City is awesome.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

Ville wrote:

Actually Sim City is awesome.

I never said it wasn't

Re: Terraforming undoing

Current terraform mechanic is *** overpowered, nevermind ridiculous how terrain loads up out of nowhere with graphical lag involved.

At this point I'd say just reimburse NIC for charges & reset terrain & remove terraforming from the game until you fix it properly.

Hint on fix-it-properly:
Step 1: Test server, test forum, listen to feedback.
Step 2: Revoke Annihilators and Inda's privileges to post in said forum for obvious reasons.

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Re: Terraforming undoing

see - zoom is just waiting with the PVE announcement blog until my sub runs out (next week - no intention to extend it with ice again).

At this point I'd say just reimburse NIC for charges & reset terrain & remove terraforming from the game until you fix it properly.

before or after substracting NIC from "creative usage of game mechanics" ?

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16 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-15 20:14:02)

Re: Terraforming undoing

Syndic wrote:

At this point I'd say just reimburse NIC for charges & reset terrain & remove terraforming from the game until you fix it properly.

Hint on fix-it-properly:
Step 1: Test server, test forum, listen to feedback.
Step 2: Revoke Annihilators and Inda's privileges to post in said forum for obvious reasons.

You guys and your reimbursements smile

Also read the original feedback threads to see how clueless people were / are about what would happen with Terra Forming (Not everyone, there were some who called exactly what would happen), why you think anyone will give more intelligent feedback this time is beyond me.

Re: Terraforming undoing

Anni do you need a spade?

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Re: Terraforming undoing

Hi. I am an important player. Because I currently don't have any invesment into Gamma, nor do I play on Beta, or mine, or run missions, I am happy to call for nerfs to all of these because none of them affect me right now.

But hey, I just care about myself, not the game.  The game should cater to me, I shouldn't have to play it.




^^ Seems to be a popular theme lately on these forums, more than usual.

Re: Terraforming undoing

Flying robots.

20 (edited by Annihilator 2013-03-16 20:34:05)

Re: Terraforming undoing

i am back when the game has PvE content, is rebalanced to be focused on multiplayer instead multi-account, and well, gets new robots (real ones, not only different color)

and yeah, when terraforming went through the third engine remake wink

*edit* last but not least - when PvP player stop talking about PvE mechanics, since its not their playing field fuuu

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Terraforming undoing

Annihilator wrote:

i am back when the game has PvE content, is rebalanced to be focused on multiplayer instead multi-account


Balancing for multi-account or multiplayer is the same thing unfortunately. Anyways see you soon smile

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Re: Terraforming undoing

Celebro wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

i am back when the game has PvE content, is rebalanced to be focused on multiplayer instead multi-account


Balancing for multi-account or multiplayer is the same thing unfortunately. Anyways see you soon smile

Not strictly true, follow bots are prevalent because there is so little involved in repping / energy transferring people, that dedicated logistics is a pointless job and much better done on an alt.

Re: Terraforming undoing

Terraforming needs a nerf.  Something like a sliding 'instability index' and a requirement that all terraforming be perfome within x distance of am Outpost or a Command Relay.   

When I say 'Instability Index' I mean it's all well and good for you to build Mordor Walls but the obvious instability this would cause would make it impossible to build on or around them(so you can make a Romanesque dirt wall fort not a Mordoresque monster).  This would mean that modular walls would be more important and gates(the forcefield gate is a good idea) would be needed.

Also, making a Command Relay or Outpost radius a necissity for terraforming would make said forts a little more localized and prevent the wholesale sealing of an island.  Would also be cool to add a 'rapid degradation' function if the structure from which the land was terraformed is destroyed or removed.

Have Gamma forts, but let's make it a bit more tense.  Some of the player built structures are breath taking in their impregnability.. and it's irritating.

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24 (edited by Goffer 2013-03-25 07:45:59)

Re: Terraforming undoing

If you need to build com relay before beeing able to terraform within range would make creation of a base a pain in the ***, as you need to terraform in a lot cases before beeing able to build base. This would mean first build on the next appropriate place some buildings to start terraforming from there until your able to even start on your intended place.

And with the rule, that you can't terraform near buildings terraforming  250 m near any build should not vanish after any time, else you would need to restart your fortress every few weeks. No sane would build large base with that rules.
As it is today with the given population and its side effect that even large alliances have times, where they could not field 5 player for defense, no actual corp or alliance would be able to build base, thats not leveled by large attacking fleet during their weak time if your unable to terraform in advance before placing buildings and be sure a design will hold.

For the walls sealing of tp you should take into account, that every really sealed of tp has a base there at tp sealing, else you would not stop attacker, as it is no big deal to terraform your way in an island if there are no turrets. Only small roaming gangs without the real intention to do anything for a kill are stopped by pure terraforming without turrets.

25 (edited by zigZag 2013-03-26 16:20:47)

Re: Terraforming undoing

Nice thread, enjoyed reading it...

The game recycles plants, it should erode terrain also. Old Ruins are cool,,,but they should erode after time.  I don't want any more honey doooos, like a reclamation function. 

Being completely selfish, and lazy.  AI industry roams should reclaim Ruins.  Observer roams should shoot there way through them instead of getting trapped in them.  Anything except thinking a reclaiming function is content for this game..........It would be a anchor around the neck of casual.

If walls were done right,,,,,well,,,just if. Displacer gates anyone?.....hehe.

Yeah,,really.  I should explain Displacer gates probably.

Set one outside your OP's influence like close to a TP.....Then set another one inside your OP's influence like close to your OP....walk through one and you come out the other one....Gates are linked in pairs, so if one gets shot,,,the gate is broke.  The same HPs as a armored local TP. 

This enables the ability to wall structures using fewer walls, instead of walling off half a island.  Could reduce terrrorforming to a a a art form,,,instead of throwing mud.