Re: Titan ore.

The difference is that I like mining.
Not always and I would like it more if it would be more task than switching tiles and moving ore without beeing something stupid repetitive, but with two miner/harvester bots, your usually busy when not mining liquid and like me doing all by hand without macros.
To be honest best thing on mining is that you could stop it when ever you like and even better have a break of 10 min while RL kicks in without loosing more than just the time your afk. For short breaks not even that time.

Re: Titan ore.

Everyone likes to mine at the beginning. I mean, oh look that's indie bot! It's TRRRRRR GRRRRRR like a tractor! Oh look that's Argano! A Termis! A Riveller (thx Zoom for fixing "cow on the ice" bug)! They are rolling around scanning! Then there are mining LAZORS!!!! Tiles, they are red at first, becoming black on next rescan!

Few days after (best case) there is no joy. You have seen your bot from every side, watched his every move and every detail, you know how many pins does it have in his tracks... Ok we have dynamic ore spawns now, at least it's not the same place again and again, but still - the process of mining is always the same - just sit down and watch out of caravans/observers spending your lifetime and money to actually not playing the game.

If that's strongly necessary to mine-mine-mine those goddamn tons of resources, then add more meaning for that. F.e. every single thing in this game could be craftable (no need to recycle everything, but to craft - that would be good). Some random events could happen while mining, like terrain level decreasing (dig a hole!), earthquakes changing the landscape (too much bots for one spot), or even HDT burn out by an accident (never explode anything on the spot).

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

28 (edited by Celebro 2013-02-11 18:43:04)

Re: Titan ore.

I enjoy most of my mining sessions, specially when I started playing Perp, it was my main source of income. Finding a huge red stermonit field on daoden after scanning on all alpha islands was a delight find, couldn't wait to bring my shiny new termis over and spend all day mining and hauling the stuff back to market at TMA or ICS. The time spent felt rewarding.

Apart from my perspective, now things have changed. My high skills and low cycle times means targeting tiles far too frequently and cargohold fills up quicker too. To put matters worse last Indy changes made skills don't extract more ores out of a tiles just faster which made it even less enjoyable. Hence titan being the worst  ore to mine imo.

I always had some issues with mining:

Observers disrupted your mining session, no capable defences from a solo miner or dual miner/hauler combo. Where as a bunch of roaming arhkes would have been possible to take them out with launcher or a shield to tank.
This would have also made it more enjoyable and still be less passive.

The tile scan should be live once found and seen by squad. Changing colour as you go on mining, and see you progress live. I like to see what is left without sacrificing a head slot.

Separate live window showing amount left on field to mine in percentage and quantity, with estimate time for completion.

Mining should remain a real time passive time sink , though that does not mean there is no room for improvements.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Titan ore.

So how about a deployable geoscanner beacon which would constantly update you (and possibly your squad) with new results if you are close? (and has limited lifetime of course)

Re: Titan ore.

Sounds great in  first glance, but would reduce usage of geoscanner. In fact each real miner has no geoscanner equipped while mining, so that's probably no real loss in geoscanner usage.

31 (edited by Celebro 2013-02-11 19:34:02)

Re: Titan ore.

DEV Zoom wrote:

So how about a deployable geoscanner beacon which would constantly update you (and possibly your squad) with new results if you are close? (and has limited lifetime of course)

That's sound like a good idea Zoom. Whilst you are at it a new 'log tab' on squad window, with amount mined for every character, for squad leaders to keep an eye. big_smile

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Titan ore.

Goffer wrote:

Sounds great in  first glance, but would reduce usage of geoscanner. In fact each real miner has no geoscanner equipped while mining, so that's probably no real loss in geoscanner usage.

Well it would only make result updates at a discovered field easier. To find a new field, a geoscanner module would be still more viable since you have to move around.

Re: Titan ore.

Come to think of it, we could probably make it so that it's recoverable like a terraforming beacon but you have to feed it with energy cells it to keep it working.

Re: Titan ore.

Being able to see the tile color change in real-time would make it more interesting, you can actually see results, as well as knowing about when your're going to need to change tiles. It would also remove the need for Einstien level geo-spacial awareness when using a single scan bot and trying to line up 4 mines with it.

@hunter - Resource gathering is never going to be arcade style fun. It simply needs to be rewarding, but it will always be boring. The only way around that is to limit the TIME that players can spend mining. For example, I would mine every night for 4-5 hours, there's no game ever designed that can keep someone entertained for that long, but it was rewarding in the sense I was accomplishing quota goals. Yes, its like a job. That's just the nature of mining/resource gathering; Unless you only need a small amount of it, but that doesn't work in a game that has a player economy and player built objects.

Re: Titan ore.

+1 a bazillion million.

What a great Idea.

Just make it update the field every 30 seconds or something it doesn't have to be all the time.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

36 (edited by Annihilator 2013-02-11 23:30:16)

Re: Titan ore.

just make the geoscanning something that doesnt need a specific module and ammo when doing it with a MINER bot

what does it really add to the game that that whole mechanic is a module with ammo consumption??

while your at it - merge chassi and cargoscanner, and make it perma-equipped module on light ewar bot.

edit:
*i dont mean to remove those modules, but make them only necessary on NON mining bots.
**Also, i mean that geoscanner should not consume the ammo, so you only have to cary 1 per type to calibrate them. See details in my ammo topic...
*** btw, that would probably be WAY LESS PROGRAMMING then adding another game mechanic like the geoscan beacon there, with almost the same outcome.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Titan ore.

Make it a new Nexus module.
That already has squad share mechanic and tier levels.
Either use scan charge of corresponding ore type for each (manual) update,
or
Make it a different Nexus per ore type.

Re: Titan ore.

Annihilator wrote:

*** btw, that would probably be WAY LESS PROGRAMMING then adding another game mechanic like the geoscan beacon there, with almost the same outcome.

That may be true, but what does it have to do with constant scanresult updates? The two are completely different issues. Or do you mean to run your geoscanner module all the time?

DarkOver: the Nexus system works by applying a simple modification value to the stats of your robot or modules. It cannot "send" geoscan results, it's a completely different system.

39 (edited by Annihilator 2013-02-12 01:18:50)

Re: Titan ore.

if you got no ammo consumption, you can let that scanner run permanently and it would update the result every time.
Also, every miner out there would be able to do it on his own, so sharing in squad not necessary

what you would have to programm: variable ammo consumption per cycle (would enrich the game in other places too) and updating the geoscanning terrain overlay, withouth making it necessary to "upload" it.

at the same time, the whole laggy geoscanning uploading, sharing result via corp storage and outdated result management would be gone.

someone geoscanning with equipped scanner module on non-miner bot would only need to find a location, gather information how much is there (area based scan which is currently obsolete could be altered a little bit to show usefull information), place a waypoint with the information and share it with corp, friends or squad

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Titan ore.

I'm not sure I get some of your logic jumps smile

Does anyone still use result sharing by creating items? If not, what would change if we removed the option for it?

As I wrote in the other topic, uploading a result will be optional after the next patch. So you will be able to run geoscanners constantly if you want, without the need to upload results. (Well, except that geoscanners currently do not cycle automatically, but that's just a setting.)
Changing ammo consumption wouldn't really change this mechanic, the only result would be that you wouldn't have to bring a lot of charges. Sure that makes things easier for an individual, however it still wouldn't do anything in the issue of result sharing. It's not my impression that "forcing" every miner to run a geoscanner constantly would be a welcome feature. Hence the idea of an independent beacon which "radiates" result data to a squad.

Re: Titan ore.

Zooms idea is *** simple...why try and complicate it?

Just go for it.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

42 (edited by Hunter 2013-02-12 03:20:20)

Re: Titan ore.

2Arga: Isn't this a game? We came here to play or work? You said: but it will always be boring - so the game will be always with low online. More than everytime there will be toons of sh*t in chats after each kill instead of friendly conversations.

2Zoom: So do you think that itroducing the little thing should increase the ppl interest to the game? Will we play harder after implementing the field geoscanners?..

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Titan ore.

Hunter, I was trying to be civil in my original post.  You should be like Lucian and be unemployeed and run 10 trial miner accounts. big_smile

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Titan ore.

Thats cause it's been 2 years of 3-4 scrubs getting hung up on intricate microfeatures nobody cares or has ever cared about.

Make a deployable & destroyable PBS that auto-mine already. It's not like everyone's not already using scripts, bots and everything in the Holy Bible to get around chewing mud for 12 hours a day on Gamma. Problem solved!

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Titan ore.

Hunter: yes, it's the sole feature that will save the game and make us millionaires. Jesus Christ dude roll

46 (edited by Goffer 2013-02-12 07:15:34)

Re: Titan ore.

DEV Zoom wrote:

Does anyone still use result sharing by creating items? If not, what would change if we removed the option for it?

Yes. Not on regular base, but from time to time

47 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-02-12 09:32:12)

Re: Titan ore.

Goffer wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Does anyone still use result sharing by creating items? If not, what would change if we removed the option for it?

Yes. Not on regular base, but from time to time

same here. still useing it to share resource locations within the corp and my alts on a regular basis...

Syndic wrote:

Make a deployable & destroyable PBS that auto-mine already. It's not like everyone's not already using scripts, bots and everything in the Holy Bible to get around chewing mud for 12 hours a day on Gamma. Problem solved!

well i had a topic about that months ago and was shot down furious by the miners that still "enjoy" sitting on the field and watching their mining lasers.


but in general that geoscan probe sounds intresting. will make some things more easy... even if you mine out a field with system you mosty dont need permanent scans. anyway it is a good idea and will bring more options into the game and alone that is worth it.

Re: Titan ore.

Merkle wrote:

Zooms idea is *** simple...why try and complicate it?

Just go for it.

hmm, lets see how it will be balanced,

a geoscan beacon will have:
1. a price
2. infinite geoscan charges?
3. a volume
4. broadcast its results to everyone in a 50+ agent squad?
5. 100% accuracy?

will it make T2-T4 geoscanners obsolete for minerals?
(deposits can be found with directionals and syntec scanner)
will it only help those who can field at least two bots to the mining operation?


if you want to make something re-collectable like terraforming beacons, then start with field container and proxy probes.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Titan ore.

  • Beacon should work similar to field container (if not locked, disappears in a hour), but should be pick-up-able

  • Beacon should work similar to terraforming beacon too - it should be charged with special Geoscanner Charger Module, each cycle of that module performs a scan

  • Geoscanner Charger Module should fit turret slot or whatever else type, just to fill that silly wasted slot supposed to have a gun, FFS

  • Geoscanner Charger Module should be loaded with filter lens - 1 of special ammo that actually chooses which resource scan will show, and destroys on unload

  • Filter lens should be not craftable and have a cost between 1k and 10k

  • Geoscanner Beacon should be not craftable too

thats how it could be IMO

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Titan ore.

Annihilator wrote:
Merkle wrote:

Zooms idea is *** simple...why try and complicate it?

Just go for it.

hmm, lets see how it will be balanced,

a geoscan beacon will have:
1. a price
2. infinite geoscan charges?
3. a volume
4. broadcast its results to everyone in a 50+ agent squad?
5. 100% accuracy?

will it make T2-T4 geoscanners obsolete for minerals?
(deposits can be found with directionals and syntec scanner)
will it only help those who can field at least two bots to the mining operation?


if you want to make something re-collectable like terraforming beacons, then start with field container and proxy probes.

of cource it has to be ballanced right.
but dont forget artefact scanning. T4 geoscanner are very much a help here.

and these probes could also come in tier levels from 1-4