Topic: Tyrannos shield tank

First of, I am green pilot .

Can someone explain, why tyrannos (mech class) can have a far superior tank than any combat heavy mech?


Thank you in advance.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Because they nerfed my baby in to the ground

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Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Lemon wrote:

Because they nerfed my baby in to the ground

At least your baby Mesmer has the DPS.. but Gropho?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Celebro wrote:

First of, I am green pilot .

Can someone explain, why tyrannos (mech class) can have a far superior tank than any combat heavy mech?


Thank you in advance.

technically speaking:

  • because you got a 50% accumulator recharge bonus on a mech with a relatively small accumulator size. where the math behind it, makes it recharge twice as fast as any other factions mech.

  • because after "shield" <> "shield tuning" was put into a more logical balance (where you dont need shield-bonus + 3x shield tuning just to have a decent usable shield),
    the previously attempt to make all green bots able to benefit from shield with a recharge bonus, was not reverted

  • Accumulator specs on ALL bots have been implemented with the backthought that none of them should be capstable, just the bigger bots should be able to shoot a bit longer with a bigger buffer and more weapons. (aka HM has bigger accumulator, lower recharge rate then Mech)

  • After ERP implementation, suddenly REPAIR tunings got knee-jerk-nerfed grand times to have their stats in line with other TUNINGS, while shield hardener haven't been considered as "Tunings" at all regarding the given % numbers on them.

btw, i think Lemon was talking about his ERP Artemis...

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5 (edited by Celebro 2012-11-14 02:09:43)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Annihilator wrote:
Celebro wrote:

First of, I am green pilot .

Can someone explain, why tyrannos (mech class) can have a far superior tank than any combat heavy mech?


Thank you in advance.

technically speaking:

  • because you got a 50% accumulator recharge bonus on a mech with a relatively small accumulator size. where the math behind it, makes it recharge twice as fast as any other factions mech.

  • because after "shield" <> "shield tuning" was put into a more logical balance (where you dont need shield-bonus + 3x shield tuning just to have a decent usable shield),
    the previously attempt to make all green bots able to benefit from shield with a recharge bonus, was not reverted

  • Accumulator specs on ALL bots have been implemented with the backthought that none of them should be capstable, just the bigger bots should be able to shoot a bit longer with a bigger buffer and more weapons. (aka HM has bigger accumulator, lower recharge rate then Mech)

  • After ERP implementation, suddenly REPAIR tunings got knee-jerk-nerfed grand times to have their stats in line with other TUNINGS, while shield hardener haven't been considered as "Tunings" at all regarding the given % numbers on them.

btw, i think Lemon was talking about his ERP Artemis...

Ok, if we leave your technical and informative reasoning behind. Which happened a very long time ago.

I still don't see the logical balance in this. Even as a green pilot, when anyone upgrades to a superior class of mech (tyrannos -> gropho) My logic dictates everything should be better, and not requiring a tag along HM indy bot following me around all day.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

just remove the acc bonus & place a bonus that relates directly to shields

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The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

7 (edited by Goffer 2012-11-14 07:22:48)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

I'm fine with the actual bonus, just give shild a lock that prevents usage of offensive things like ECM, Demob, Drain, Weapon,... while shild is up, until 1 min after shild stop.

Than ask again if Tyrannos is still that powerful as it is since the last 12 months. It would be still powertank, but could not be offensive power while tanking.

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

i have made that suggestion some time ago:

give the shield a reactivation dealy of some seconds (5-15s of vunrability after the last cycle ended on deactivation). that will block the weapon cycling without chance of retaliation.

9 (edited by MoBIoS 2012-11-14 13:35:43)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

I too think that the Tyrannos has an exorbitant accu recharg rate. Compared to other Mechs, such as the Ictus, who actually relies on that recharge rate, to operate. It has nothing to do with how shield mechanic works, soley the accumulator recharge rate, which is beneficial towards shield usage, of the Tyrannos in particular, needs to be adressed, to be balanced towards other Mechs.

Goffer wrote:

I'm fine with the actual bonus, just give shild a lock that prevents usage of offensive things like ECM, Demob, Drain, Weapon,... while shild is up, until 1 min after shild stop.

Which I think is untrue, considering the nature of Ewar, true in terms of weapon usage, but it has been discussed prior to this and has no relevance to the subject of the Tyrannos accumulator issue.

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Re: Tyrannos shield tank

lol

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Alexadar wrote:

lol

+1

unnerf Erp and repair tunings.

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Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Why you so Jelly bro.. Just because you guys failed to kill me last week while I was attempting to take the sap.. And I walked all The home in front of your faces and there was nothing you could do.. I do appreciate the triple nueting gargoyle was a nice touch.. smile But not enough... *** NERFING GREEN.. Maybe you should devise better fleet composition and it might not be so difficult ..Angel Wing,Ceta ,Simmy,Death Angel, all veteran players ...where is the creativity.. Green is easy to take down with the proper counter .Just like all the other mechs...  Dont QQ ,And make a post about tyrannos shields being to uber..Just because you couldn't kill me  a few days prior..   And in saying that if shields really are to OP Then *** it boost armor bots as well.. There is so little Pvp in the game might as well make everyone live longer in battle for MORE PEW PEW.... Looking forward to seeing you guys in future battles...

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Dancing with the cats have caused them to lose touch.

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Re: Tyrannos shield tank

SupremeGhandi wrote:

Why you so Jelly bro.. Just because you guys failed to kill me last week while I was attempting to take the sap.. And I walked all The home in front of your faces and there was nothing you could do.. I do appreciate the triple nueting gargoyle was a nice touch.. smile But not enough... *** NERFING GREEN.. Maybe you should devise better fleet composition and it might not be so difficult ..Angel Wing,Ceta ,Simmy,Death Angel, all veteran players ...where is the creativity.. Green is easy to take down with the proper counter .Just like all the other mechs...  Dont QQ ,And make a post about tyrannos shields being to uber..Just because you couldn't kill me  a few days prior..   And in saying that if shields really are to OP Then *** it boost armor bots as well.. There is so little Pvp in the game might as well make everyone live longer in battle for MORE PEW PEW.... Looking forward to seeing you guys in future battles...


LOL

I think you are taking yourself a tad bit too important.

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Re: Tyrannos shield tank

tyrannos has lowest dps and speed of mechs, you want it to be squishy too?

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

SupremeGhandi wrote:

Why you so Jelly bro.. Just because you guys failed to kill me last week while I was attempting to take the sap.. And I walked all The home in front of your faces and there was nothing you could do.. I do appreciate the triple nueting gargoyle was a nice touch.. smile But not enough... *** NERFING GREEN.. Maybe you should devise better fleet composition and it might not be so difficult ..Angel Wing,Ceta ,Simmy,Death Angel, all veteran players ...where is the creativity.. Green is easy to take down with the proper counter .Just like all the other mechs...  Dont QQ ,And make a post about tyrannos shields being to uber..Just because you couldn't kill me  a few days prior..   And in saying that if shields really are to OP Then *** it boost armor bots as well.. There is so little Pvp in the game might as well make everyone live longer in battle for MORE PEW PEW.... Looking forward to seeing you guys in future battles...


Note to self: Next time need to remember to leave a fitted ictus ready to roll on all outposts ..meh.

Nothing to do with that I am afraid.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

If you show me one way to get 1 Shielded Tyrannos down with 2 Kains, I agree, that Tyrannos is not overpowered.

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Goffer wrote:

If you show me one way to get 1 Shielded Tyrannos down with 2 Kains, I agree, that Tyrannos is not overpowered.

2 Kains can carry 4 neuts/drains to deal with Tyrannos shield. Same for 1 ERP Kain down with 2 %mechname% btw and for 1 Armored Arte...oh wait.

So based on such scheme, Shielded Tyrannos is not that OP, same as ERP Kain (this one is even more affected). Sadly we don't have anything similar for Artemis but that's a little different.

Root of the problem is, that there is not that much Ictus pilots still, and not everyone can bring one each time - they are expensive and fragile, as every other EWar, and since neuts are affected by LoS, and shields are affected by neuts - they are even more fragile than other EWar Mechs.
On other hand, if you will fit your fleet with neuts/drains to deal with shields/ERP, it will make your forces weaker against other types of enemies because of DPS sacrifice - without bonuses, your neuts/drainers will be not that effective as they should be. Oh, and yes, your accu will be dry much faster so you'll become even more weaker unable to shoot/repair yourself.

Such things are hard to balance - you can't just force ppl to level Ictus, and in some cases, you can't afford yourself to risk them. Probably solution can be, says, increasing Ictus survive abilities, like increasing shield bonus to 5% per level, or decreasing accu usage of neuts/drainers, or even make neuts (and neuts only) unaffected by LoS again, and FFS where is my AoE neuts?

And give resists tanking more meaning, it's not that good atm.

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Industrial Sector wrote:
Goffer wrote:

If you show me one way to get 1 Shielded Tyrannos down with 2 Kains, I agree, that Tyrannos is not overpowered.

2 Kains can carry 4 neuts/drains to deal with Tyrannos shield. Same for 1 ERP Kain down with 2 %mechname% btw and for 1 Armored Arte...oh wait.

So based on such scheme, Shielded Tyrannos is not that OP, same as ERP Kain (this one is even more affected). Sadly we don't have anything similar for Artemis but that's a little different.

Root of the problem is, that there is not that much Ictus pilots still, and not everyone can bring one each time - they are expensive and fragile, as every other EWar, and since neuts are affected by LoS, and shields are affected by neuts - they are even more fragile than other EWar Mechs.
On other hand, if you will fit your fleet with neuts/drains to deal with shields/ERP, it will make your forces weaker against other types of enemies because of DPS sacrifice - without bonuses, your neuts/drainers will be not that effective as they should be. Oh, and yes, your accu will be dry much faster so you'll become even more weaker unable to shoot/repair yourself.

Such things are hard to balance - you can't just force ppl to level Ictus, and in some cases, you can't afford yourself to risk them. Probably solution can be, says, increasing Ictus survive abilities, like increasing shield bonus to 5% per level, or decreasing accu usage of neuts/drainers, or even make neuts (and neuts only) unaffected by LoS again, and FFS where is my AoE neuts?

And give resists tanking more meaning, it's not that good atm.

How about just making shields vulnerable to weapon fire?

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Dreadchain wrote:

How about just making shields vulnerable to weapon fire?

They are. They are unaffected by any kind of resists and absorbing even more damage you could get without them, rest is your hp/ap efficiency, which is, in Tyrannos case, not that high.

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Industrial Sector wrote:

On other hand, if you will fit your fleet with neuts/drains to deal with shields/ERP, it will make your forces weaker against other types of enemies because of DPS sacrifice

That is the only thing you said that was remotely close to being accurate.

*Insert indepth breakdown of balance and what works/doesn;t*

Thats why your wrong and you read about as much as you would have had it been filled in.

Also this is as much as the devs will ever take from a thread of this type.

........................

Nothing you assume there are any dev's to read or even make the changes anymore.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

22 (edited by Industrial Sector 2012-11-15 17:40:29)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Lemon wrote:

random bullshit

Unfortunately to you, Mr. I-Know-Evrything, noone wants to play with you in your childish "Guess what" game. Move along, thread for smart arses is elsewhere.

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Lemon wrote:
Industrial Sector wrote:

On other hand, if you will fit your fleet with neuts/drains to deal with shields/ERP, it will make your forces weaker against other types of enemies because of DPS sacrifice

That is the only thing you said that was remotely close to being accurate.

*Insert indepth breakdown of balance and what works/doesn;t*

Thats why your wrong and you read about as much as you would have had it been filled in.

Also this is as much as the devs will ever take from a thread of this type.

........................

Nothing you assume there are any dev's to read or even make the changes anymore.


+1  May of these wonderfully stupid suggestions have no idea what you can actually do to counter a shield.  Sure lets make the ictus overpowered that will clearly make everything ok.

A lot of this is stems from just plain ignorance of how to fit, or the fittings that are involved.

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24 (edited by Industrial Sector 2012-11-15 19:46:51)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Merkle wrote:

other random bullshit

While I personally don't care about this game anymore and posting here just because I still have about 6 months paid on this account, I feel necessary to clear some things for you.

There already was lots of threads about nerf shields/erp/other stuff, and there will be more until things are changed in one way or another. You wonder why? Let me explain that for you.

more > lesser
majority of ppl > minority of ppl
opinion of majority > opinion of minority
common players number > very smart players number

As far as I can see, common players are thinking that some features are imbalanced, that leads us to:

imbalanced > balanced

Now, what do we see on the forums? Common players are saying that one or other thing is too op/weak, and bring something that they think is prooving their words. Very smart players are mostly telling "ALL OK STFU L2P GTFO" don't bothering to bring any prooves. ok but what does that mean?

Look, smart guys, your mothers said to you that other kids don't play with you because you're special...Well, they lied. But don't blame them, they do love you and just didn't want to hurt you. Truth is, that you insult other kids while being very special, and that's why they don't want to play with you anymore. You should learn how to act with them in polite and respectful manner, or you will be always alone.

tl; dr: KEEP GOING GUYS THIS GAME IS ALMOST DEAD, FINISH IT NOW!!

25 (edited by Annihilator 2012-11-15 20:07:31)

Re: Tyrannos shield tank

Lol - Merkle - where did someone say "make ictus overpowered". the oppositte was written here: make it possible to deal with shield tanks without having to field ictusses.

so, your right, noone has an idea how to counter a shield - because noone can "do the merkle style" they way you can do tongue

the above statement quoted by lemon - as non PvP player, i wonder which other type of enemies you are weaker against if you do not field multiple EnWar Agents.
In PvE EnWar helps against everything as long as you can apply it fast enough to instant empty the targets accumulator. Though, there is no reason to do so, if you can use the same place in squad for more DPS, which is everything in PVE: Killed NPC / min

Industrial Sectors latest comment:
+ 1 (well, +4 if you count all my expiring accounts ingame)

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