Topic: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

For me the game needs to decide what kind of experience the NPC fights wants to offer.

ATM for me it feels like "Hack&Slay" type loot/reward forced upon "boss like" npcs.

my Requests for a more evolved AI are based on the idea to go towards the "Boss fight", where you get a tough fight vs. any NPCs, but also get a reward that is worth losing some times against them (its closer to pvp)
This also comes in line with a total reduction of static NPC numbers all over the islands, and replace them with more roaming ones.

Mission NPCs should only spawn for the mission... not beeing around there all the time.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Shouldn't we wait with any more changes until we have a stable server again?
I think the developers have enough on their mind as it is, today comes first tomorrow is far in the future!

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Doesnt hurt discussing ideas/suggestions for the future, to help the DEV's create the game we want. We cant really do anything about the DDOS attacks anyways smile

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

There are quiet a lot of soloable spawns now, and by soloing I mean a Heavy Mech + 2 Logistics to kill light bots.  This AI change does offset the risk for reqard factor of Beta, if you include AOE damage into the equation.

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Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Working as intended.

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Annihilator wrote:

For me the game needs to decide what kind of experience the NPC fights wants to offer.

ATM for me it feels like "Hack&Slay" type loot/reward forced upon "boss like" npcs.

my Requests for a more evolved AI are based on the idea to go towards the "Boss fight", where you get a tough fight vs. any NPCs, but also get a reward that is worth losing some times against them (its closer to pvp)
This also comes in line with a total reduction of static NPC numbers all over the islands, and replace them with more roaming ones.

Mission NPCs should only spawn for the mission... not beeing around there all the time.


In doing so this will make research for the newer players that much harder to obtain...I'm talking extremely hard to obtain.

Now if said rewards were adjusted for more favorable kernel drop rates, I could see potential here.

Just Sayin
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7 (edited by Annihilator 2012-01-30 12:59:51)

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Ville wrote:

There are quiet a lot of soloable spawns now, and by soloing I mean a Heavy Mech + 2 Logistics to kill light bots.  This AI change does offset the risk for reqard factor of Beta, if you include AOE damage into the equation.

1 mech + 2 support = 3

how the hell is that "solo" ?

to make it a bit more understandable:
fighting most npcs in perpetuum feels like fighting Diablo with a Sorceress, alone. 1st star cremator = normal diablo, 4th star cremator is hell diablo.
If you stay to close to get hit once by his main attack, you dead... so you stay out of range and hide behind a part of the CS.

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

In doing so this will make research for the newer players that much harder to obtain...I'm talking extremely hard to obtain.

Now if said rewards were adjusted for more favorable kernel drop rates, I could see potential here.

about the rewards - i said, rewards can and should be adjusted. The current balance between difficulty and reward simpy is not present.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Mine was obvious sarcasm.

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http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

2DeV's: You awesome good job with mob's. I like it. (no sarcasm)

2notDeV's: Learn how to play. Learn how to kill mobs. Learn how to not cry. Enjoy!  wink

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Hunter wrote:

2DeV's: You awesome good job with mob's. I like it. (no sarcasm)

2notDeV's: Learn how to play. Learn how to kill mobs. Learn how to not cry. Enjoy!  wink

Farming low end mobs got harder but not by much. The issue now is the old RR style does not work as well. The new style is kill them as they spawn. It was always the easiest but required the most man power. Now if you're farming you might as well take 2 combats and 1 RR rather than 1 combats and 2 RR.

If there is one thing I know well it's the different ways to farm NPC's (Because apparently I've never PVPed before according to a few people). tongue

I AM NOT A GM™

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Hunter - you dont need to "learn" how to kill mobs.

its dumb easy... if your having more then one account. a senseless grind for which you need either high extensions and gear, or RL money - or both.

with the words of someone else "the game is advocating blobbing" - it starts from your first minute in game with the first sentece you will tell someone new in help channel: "join a corp..."

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

The new PVE REQUIRES players to fit similar to PVP now, and that change in mindset is probably the hurdle here; and it introduces a new learning curve, even for PVE players that have farmed for months.

If your going to solo, an ECCM is required, players are also going to have to fit a sensor amp and put more EP into sensor connection to improve relock; because even with ECCM the ewar will land an ECM and supression on you eventually.

This means giving up weapon tuners, reducing sustained dps, meaning your leg slots are going to have to be more defensive to allow you to tank too. Just kiting in/out of lock range doesn't work.

The plus side, is they have accumulator now, so again with PVP fits, you can add in nuets and drainers. But again this reduces DPS.

Maxing out DPS, as Alex points out with 1 combat/2 support, worked before when you could power the NPC's down. Now it takes more finnese; and a second combat bot to get your DPS back up to break the spawn; even with RSA.

But solo, just pure DPS won't win the day anymore. But, increasing the reward makes non-solo farming TOO much NIC/hour, unless you also decrease the spawn rate.

tl-dr; Only by making smaller spawns and decreasing the spawn rate, can you balance easier solo play without over-rewarding group play. And of course, they'll need to be a seperation between solo and group spawns, to keep the group spawns also challenging.

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Guys... I have a great news for you:
1) This is a MMORPG. Players should not play alone.
2) Noobs should not kill highlvl mobs easy and alone. And YES - Low level too. Noobs should search squads for mob farm.
3) Can't kill mobs? try to mine ores or search artifacts.

Sometime you will kill this game with your whining.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

MMO does not mean you have to form groups of 40 players to kill a 1 star NPC. MMO means that you can interact with other players, and they help form the game world with you.

Solo content is still MMO content.

The main purposed of solo content, however, isn't for that guy that wants to farm bots forever. Its there, so when you log in there are already other players in your corp online.

Conceptually, when players log in and have nothing to do, they log out. This doesn't allow time for groups to form. Solo content gives players a reason to be online, so that enough people can get logged in at the same time, and THEN they can group up and do multi-player content.

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

I haven't had the chance yet to try the harder spawns since the AI change, although I find it much more entertaining with the change. Reading the comments in game today, the amount of ewar mobs throw at you is kind of silly and that I think is the main problems specially ecm and energy drainers.

Anything to far off from solo content is just going to turn players away even if in corp playing mode most of the time, there are always comes a time you will want or need to do stuff solo. oh, and having 3 accounts to take mobs is not solo actually, that's why players buy more accounts. +1 for Arga's post.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

I generally go out farming on my Artemis (soon to be Seth), and the tactic I use has been made a lot easier by the AI change.

With an optimal range of 430m, I am still hitting the bots I farm (Blue mechs/lights/assaults. 1-3 star mostly) from well outside their lock range. The only ones that have a chance of locking me are the ewar bots, but since they die in two salvos I don't really pay any attention to them.

Anyway before the AI changes, they would be pretty relentless and keep running towards me as I backed off, and eventually I would run out of room to shoot them and keep range, and would either have to get locked and take some damage (fine for non-darkstar mechs) or move to a nearby hilltop that has LoS of them and shoot them from there.

With the new AI change they get bored of chasing me back and turn around and walk back to their spawn location, allowing me to shoot any of the remaining bots in the back.

This has reduced the amount of reps I need almost to zero allowing me to focus on accumulator recharge instead.

Now I do use a support bot, but that is only because there are no accu stable Artemis fits (no bonus to accumulator) so either you bring charges with you (good luck doing that for an hours PvE grind) or get someone else to fill your accumulator for you (Gargoyle+Recharge NEXUS+Energy Transferer).

Re: Every NPC fight feels like a Boss fight

Hunter wrote:

Sometime you will kill this game with your whining.


I think it is ok as it is.
The research has lasted long enough for a small Corp., which would make it difficult to continue to destroy only small.
The problem is not the solo farmers, but the giant corps with its masses of players that make it difficult to balance this.