Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

just because you dont like the bonus or dont fits your play style doesnt mean that its not usefull or justified.

it is as it is and it is fine the way it is.

hell i dont like the mesmers rep bunus too... i also would prefer the seths crit... do i cry about it? no...

working as intended...

can we pls close this stupid topic?

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Can we change the Mesmer Falloff bonus BACK to a Overall Turret Optimal Range Bonus?

Thanks Bros Devs.

Just Sayin
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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

That would leave me at almost 600m EM range
Short range burst damage eh? big_smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Norrdec wrote:

That would leave me at almost 600m EM range
Short range burst damage eh? big_smile


Well Sense were making the game how we want...that's what I want.

Thanks Bros Devs

No need for OMG IMBA OP Mesmer Thread as it just how it was before anyway.

Just Sayin
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55 (edited by Karos 2011-11-14 07:06:56)

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Hmm.. maybe a 2 or 3 percent cycle time reduction per level bonus instead of falloff for the Kain/Mesmer, 5 would be a bit to fast i think, and i can't think of another bonus right now that would work that wouldn't be unbalanced.

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Fail!

I see no one asked for a shield bonus for their Mesmers and Seths.

Speaking of your Mesmers and Seths, do you guys even drive Grophos? Or you just saying everything is fine because you like going up against a HM that has only 2 of 3 fully funtional bonuses?

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Calio wrote:

Fail!

I see no one asked for a shield bonus for their Mesmers and Seths.

Speaking of your Mesmers and Seths, do you guys even drive Grophos? Or you just saying everything is fine because you like going up against a HM that has only 2 of 3 fully funtional bonuses?

Mesmers effectively only have 2 of 3 functional bonuses.  Many only have 1 functional bonus as they never fit a repper.  So I would say the gropho has a leg up on the blue heavies.

Fix the Mesmer (and Kain and Arbalast) before fixing the gropho.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Calio wrote:

Fail!

I see no one asked for a shield bonus for their Mesmers and Seths.

Speaking of your Mesmers and Seths, do you guys even drive Grophos? Or you just saying everything is fine because you like going up against a HM that has only 2 of 3 fully funtional bonuses?

Mesmers effectively only have 2 of 3 functional bonuses.  Many only have 1 functional bonus as they never fit a repper.  So I would say the gropho has a leg up on the blue heavies.

Fix the Mesmer (and Kain and Arbalast) before fixing the gropho.

^^^

Success.  This thread is now about how terrible blue bots are.

Discuss!

BTW they do suck...so please un-suck them.
lol

Just Sayin
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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Where kains nerfed because of the metagame (everyone and their dog was piloting one) or because they were actually imbalanced?

I agree with the T4 em gun weight increase, not with the last decrease overall decrease. I don't know how I feel about the EM gun dispersion increase.

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:
Mongolia Jones wrote:
Calio wrote:

Fail!

I see no one asked for a shield bonus for their Mesmers and Seths.

Speaking of your Mesmers and Seths, do you guys even drive Grophos? Or you just saying everything is fine because you like going up against a HM that has only 2 of 3 fully funtional bonuses?

Mesmers effectively only have 2 of 3 functional bonuses.  Many only have 1 functional bonus as they never fit a repper.  So I would say the gropho has a leg up on the blue heavies.

Fix the Mesmer (and Kain and Arbalast) before fixing the gropho.

^^^

Success.  This thread is now about how terrible blue bots are.

Discuss!

BTW they do suck...so please un-suck them.
lol

Hehe, if we finish off with how much yellow bots suck, they all suck and game is finally balanced tongue

RIP PERPETUUM

61 (edited by Calio 2011-11-15 15:53:03)

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

I don't drive a Kain or Mesmer, so I'm not qualified to say whether they're OK as is or not (unlike many of you who have no problem commenting on a Gropho even though you've never been in one).

What does a Gropho's bonuses have to do with a Kain's or Mesmer's anyways?  It's not like "ZOMG if they fix the Gropho's bonuses, they'll never fix the others."  They didn't not remove the shield bonus from the Gropho at the same time as they did remove it from the Kain because they didn't have the resources. They didn't remove the Gropho shield bonus because they didn't think it was necessary, and people who have never fought in one telling them it was a good decision doesn't help them realize that putting a defensive bonus that interferes with offense on a pure combat bot is piss-poor design. 

Shield bonuses belong on ewars and industrials. Not on pure combat bots.  It's as simple as that.

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

I wander in a gropho mk2 since some time now.  I know what im talking about. Before sparks patch, i was a blue fighter using a mesmer. So i know at least 2/3 of the "so called" problem.  And i tell you this;  there is no balance problem. Gropho is strong in its role, that is different from a mesmer and a seth.

What do you want?  All the same bots, with the same bonuses doing the same *** things?  I mean,  sandbox... diversity... choices... Id like to now your EP pool Calio, just to know how much "It's as simple as that" must be taken to the letter.

Come and *** my gropho 1v1. With a mesmer, or with a seth. Result is far from evident, in fact no one would be able to tell who win, even with same EP pool and fitting tech level.  So do you call this balanced?  Yes it is.  Its as simple as that.

You dont think at what your doing. Its the stronger attack against a sandbox game, trying to remove slowly diversity and specializations by QQing for more mainstream ***. Your theory of "why this one got this and that one got that" works in mariokart, not in perp sorry. And despite all the "insight" and "knowledge" some of you think they got about this game...  just leave my gropho alone! Leave her alone!  *said by a hair discolored emo b1tch filming under his cover*

63 (edited by Calio 2011-11-16 19:44:44)

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Cobalt wrote:

I wander in a gropho mk2 since some time now.  I know what im talking about. Before sparks patch, i was a blue fighter using a mesmer. So i know at least 2/3 of the "so called" problem.  And i tell you this;  there is no balance problem. Gropho is strong in its role, that is different from a mesmer and a seth.

What do you want?  All the same bots, with the same bonuses doing the same *** things?  I mean,  sandbox... diversity... choices... Id like to now your EP pool Calio, just to know how much "It's as simple as that" must be taken to the letter.

Come and *** my gropho 1v1. With a mesmer, or with a seth. Result is far from evident, in fact no one would be able to tell who win, even with same EP pool and fitting tech level.  So do you call this balanced?  Yes it is.  Its as simple as that.

You dont think at what your doing. Its the stronger attack against a sandbox game, trying to remove slowly diversity and specializations by QQing for more mainstream ***. Your theory of "why this one got this and that one got that" works in mariokart, not in perp sorry. And despite all the "insight" and "knowledge" some of you think they got about this game...  just leave my gropho alone! Leave her alone!  *said by a hair discolored emo b1tch filming under his cover*

I  respect your opinion because you actually use a Gropho, but I disagree with it.  I never said the Gropho is weak. I said the shield bonus is not an appropriate bonus for a combat bot and such a PITA to use that next to nobody does.  And, in answer to your EP question, I've been playing for ~10 months. You can do the EP math.

The fact that you've been able to use it successfully (and if you don't use a shield on your Gropho, why the hell are you saying it's good?) does not change that. Like I said before, I can turn a screw with a coin. That doesn't make a coin a good screw driver.

I'm willing to bet that if the devs scan the game's data base they won't 5 players in the entire game (including you, they'll only need to find 4 others) that have a shield equipped on their Grophos.  That says a lot about what the player base as a whole (not the 10 people who are regulars on the forums) thinks about the shield bonus.

As for making them all the same:

1) It's the combination of bonuses that makes a bot unique. not the individual bonuses.


2) There are plenty of potential bonuses that haven't been given out yet that would be infinitely more useful to everyone but the <5 players who actually use shields on their Grophos. Such as:

     ECCM strength bonus
     Demob resistence bonus
     Signal detection bonus
     Explosion size bonus (maybe OP)

I don't know if any of these are practical in terms of balance and I'm not advocating for any one of these. My point is that there are unique and useful potential bonuses they can give the Gropho that wouldn't make it OP in 1v1 and still be useful in some capacity to the large majority of people actually using a Gropho.

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Calio wrote:

I don't drive a Kain or Mesmer, so I'm not qualified to say whether they're OK as is or not (unlike many of you who have no problem commenting on a Gropho even though you've never been in one).

I'm a expert on all of the colors, Red, Green, Blue.
Currently I have a maxxed out toon for ALL three and they are all in different corps so I can keep a soft eye on the political situations in each of the main power houses.

So do take note when I say blue DOES suck now.   More so after the ERP nerf then most others.
Oh as well as the Dispersion of EM's (ERRRRR) and the USELESS FALLOFF modifier.

Just Sayin
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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Calio wrote:
Cobalt wrote:

1) It's the combination of bonuses that makes a bot unique. not the individual bonuses.


2) There are plenty of potential bonuses that haven't been given out yet that would be infinitely more useful to everyone but the <5 players who actually use shields on their Grophos. Such as:

    ECCM strength bonus
     Demob resistence bonus
     Signal detection bonus
     Explosion size bonus (maybe OP) 

By the way all 4 of those ideas are terrible.

Bonus is fine where it is now neutral

Just Sayin
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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

my statement is: fix shield mechanics, not the robot bonus for it.

shield is not only meant for industrial or ewars. dunno where you got that idea from. Shield had been meant as main defense of all green bots. In former times, all green bots had a shield bonus - from castel up to gropho.

it was kinda useless on the small bots, even using the single headslot for a shield tuning, it still sucked with the small accumulator and average recharge rate. Replacing the shield bonus with a recharge bonus was a good move to make the shield valid on each bot.
Later changing the shield modules and shield hardeners to reduce the number of tunings you need was also a good move.
Apperently, at that point, the recharge bonus should have been reviewed (eg. Troiar) or, IMHO, the whole accumulator thingy..

Last but not least:

the probably easiest solution for all those robot balancing discussions would be finally adding at least a second choice robot to each class/faction. (i know, the 3D artist would like to, if he could split himself for that)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

67 (edited by Calio 2011-11-17 13:37:07)

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Annihilator wrote:

my statement is: fix shield mechanics, not the robot bonus for it.

shield is not only meant for industrial or ewars. dunno where you got that idea from. Shield had been meant as main defense of all green bots. In former times, all green bots had a shield bonus - from castel up to gropho.

it was kinda useless on the small bots, even using the single headslot for a shield tuning, it still sucked with the small accumulator and average recharge rate. Replacing the shield bonus with a recharge bonus was a good move to make the shield valid on each bot.
Later changing the shield modules and shield hardeners to reduce the number of tunings you need was also a good move.
Apperently, at that point, the recharge bonus should have been reviewed (eg. Troiar) or, IMHO, the whole accumulator thingy..

Last but not least:

the probably easiest solution for all those robot balancing discussions would be finally adding at least a second choice robot to each class/faction. (i know, the 3D artist would like to, if he could split himself for that)

I have no porblem with your view at all! In fact, I think it's the best solution there is. Make missles able to fire through shields. The rationale can be the same principle as existed in the "Dune" universe, where a knife could penetrate a shield  while a projectile couldn't. Speed. Missles fly relatively slowly in comparison to beams and slugs and this slower speed allows them to pass through shields.  The really interesting implication for pvp would be: If they can fly through shields on the way out, can they also penetrate on the way in?

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Gropho's are OP enough as they are, you really don't want them to get more buffs.

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Anni, how would you suggest fixing shield mechanics?

70 (edited by Annihilator 2011-11-17 18:17:02)

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

- seperating shield hitpoints from accumulator.
- introducing long proposed specialised shield hardeners (eg. ewar shields)
- ...

i have to dig up my topics about that.
A topic about all engineering bonus of bots. Unlike purgatory, i didn't care which faction got which bonus had. At that time they havent been explicit "racial" bonuses. If you take a closer look at "resist" bonus, you will notice that it also only works together with ONE module. If you dont fit it, it doesnt make much difference to have that bonus or not.

a Really old topic about shields
since then the "combat status" got added, which could also have an effect on shields.

sidenote:
if i remember correctly, you can find a "shield bonus" topic for each robot that ever had it on the beta forums.
you can even find one about how superiour the missile bots are because they have free slots to fit drainer and neuts wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Calio wrote:

If they can fly through shields on the way out

Omg are you suggesting the ability to shoot missiles while shield is on?
Do you understand how OP this would be?

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Hm....one thinks the "just give everyone shields just like EVE" topic is coming.

big_smile:D:D:D

Just Sayin
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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

this has been talked about long long long ago back in the beta. Because a purely pvp bonus mixed in with cycle time mismatching because of extensions/tunings means shield is stupid/impractical in most setups on it was ignored.

This is because as a gropho is basically a larger waspish its natural bonus should be a range bonus. This is seen as OP on the gropho and any other bonus would equally be pretty much useless so it was just left alone.

Still i feel its a uttter waste of bonus space and would prefer a nerfed 2-3% to missile range on it instead of the 5%/ext.lvl

Either way i dont think anything is going to be done about it, atleast anytime soon ALF has his spreadsheets of numbers that he won't adjust unless he has to and thats what we have to accept.

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Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Cobalt wrote:

Men, what the hell with all those balance and change reclamations. There are more important things to think for devs than your little feeling about shield bonus not being useful.

I was blue, i rerolled green. I LOVE the gropho, I LOVE the shield bonus. In fact it saved my gropho MK2 and its ridiculous cost more than once. Learn to micromanage and youll find its the best bonus for gropho, and it can give you a serious edge in pve/pvp. 100% LIKE the gropho bonus. Dont change plz.

You CAN use the shield while doing dmgs.  With the proper extensions and enough tuners, you can go under the 5s shield cycle time. Dont change it please. In fact dont change anything from now on about balancing. You DEVS lost too much time with individual requests, i want this, i want that, this is not good, ect...  Just consider when something is REALLY OP or really useless, and i dont see anything in game corresponding to that definition.

Peoples will ALWAYS have something to whine about, because everyone want everything that fits them gameplay style.

In fact, those kind of behaviors shows a will to bend the game to ones personal taste; while the logic would be the players adapt to the rules the DEVS and their vision of the game produce.

Concentrate on POS, terraforming, content. DONT cater to the "im never happy with what i have" crowd because there will always be one. If i was to decide something on this forum i would temporarily (until big content/feature/game mechanism patch) close "feature request" and "balancing".  Its simply not the time for this. 95% of gropho users are absolutely happy (ok i created this stat out my arse but you got the point) with shield bonus. Why change it then?

I use shield and missile, i use them at the same time, and i like it. I like the way you made it. Just wanted to say that.  Because the peoples happy with something rarely or never come to forum to say it. Leaving you with a false "community taste" impression.

I have QQed several times on the forum. It was always after a big gameplay change. I didnt "created" the problem. I came to QQ for something i liked that got changed, and adapted my playstyle. What you do is even worst, due to your personal taste you want to change the game for everyone, forcing me to come here to defend my gropho with its shield bonus that is perfectly right and balanced and useful. Dont like shields? Blue and yellow will welcome you with open arms...

IMHO a well thought out post & i agree with it. The gropho works fine as is.

if you dont like it, Learn to play tongue or change mechs.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Shield bonus on a heavy combat mech is dumb.

Btw this thread does need closed Pugey tried this already in a different thread...to no avail.

Thanks

Just Sayin
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