Topic: Bad balance of risk and reward

The latest patch provides opportunity to kill lvl 5 NPC without going to beta islands. Many players think that this brokens balance of risk and reward, reduces the amount of PVP, and with it the joy of the game and online.

2 (edited by Mark Zima 2011-10-21 12:05:28)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

It's not even patched in yet and you are already QQ.
Let's see how it goes first.

(ALtho I think that it shouldn't "obsolete" observers, observers are awesome as they are.)

3 (edited by Mr ScorpLeX 2011-10-21 12:21:32)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Mark Zima wrote:

It's not even patched in yet and you are already QQ.
Let's see how it goes first.

(ALtho I think that it shouldn't "obsolete" observers, observers are awesome as they are.)

What are you talking about? re-read topic.
On Alfa islands can found NPC 5 rank, without new patch.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Mr ScorpLeX wrote:

The latest patch provides opportunity to kill lvl 5 NPC without going to beta islands. Many players think that this brokens balance of risk and reward, reduces the amount of PVP, and with it the joy of the game and online.

Translated as "Hey I don't want to look for pvp.  I want it delivered". 
Please deliver helpless targets to me care of beta island. wink

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Just no. Let the newbies a chance to get some better stuff before trying to get on betas.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

6 (edited by Stone Cold 2011-10-21 12:49:22)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

elric wrote:
Mr ScorpLeX wrote:

The latest patch provides opportunity to kill lvl 5 NPC without going to beta islands. Many players think that this brokens balance of risk and reward, reduces the amount of PVP, and with it the joy of the game and online.

Translated as "Hey I don't want to look for pvp.  I want it delivered". 
Please deliver helpless targets to me care of beta island. wink

No records foun in http://www.perp-kill.net/ for nickname elric
So -
Understanded as "Cool i can farm 5 lvl without any risks! lets push all pvp players to beta ghetto - we dont need them anyway"


Line wrote:

Just no. Let the newbies a chance to get some better stuff before trying to get on betas.

they dont need a good stuff to go to beta, they need cheap t1-t2 to have expirience without lost tons of NIC

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Stone Cold wrote:

they dont need a good stuff to go to beta, they need cheap t1-t2 to have expirience without lost tons of NIC

If they want to compete on betas, not just come and die, they need good stuff.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Line wrote:
Stone Cold wrote:

they dont need a good stuff to go to beta, they need cheap t1-t2 to have expirience without lost tons of NIC

If they want to compete on betas, not just come and die, they need good stuff.

Newbies before this patch made this somehow (my corp for exapmple) and i can tell you stuff is not a key to win.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Stone Cold wrote:
Line wrote:
Stone Cold wrote:

they dont need a good stuff to go to beta, they need cheap t1-t2 to have expirience without lost tons of NIC

If they want to compete on betas, not just come and die, they need good stuff.

Newbies before this patch made this somehow (my corp for exapmple) and i can tell you stuff is not a key to win.

Maybe but it helps lol lol lol lol

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

the best t4 Knowledge base doesnt help you much if you dont get the epriton and noralgis...

on alpha you get SOME lvl5 npcs
on beta you got LOTS of lvl5 npcs

on beta you can build and lose your stuff with 30% price reduction minimum... as alpha player it costs you a lot more. This is another entry-barrier to beta: you need to settle down there FIRST to get the reward for the risk.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Stop whining about PvE and risk and reward and balance and blah blah blah.

It's a one shot beacon. You use it and you need to go farm more. It's not like a faucet for free loot. People don't need to be forced to go to beta to do PvE content. Beta is PvP. Stop mixing the 2 constantly, they don't need to intertwine all the time. The risk should be in the difficulty of the NPC's. If someone has the EP to do it, then why should they then be forced to also have to PvP to face PvE content? This game is too small for that crap.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Did OP win the 100K NIC bet for getting people to bite on this troll?

13 (edited by Cobalt 2011-10-21 19:54:01)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Please dont talk risk/reward about those beacons.  I just spent 3 hours farming in BETA for those, killed around 20 elites, none dropped.  I spent 3 hours risking my bot just to discover the droprate of these (and i didnt), seems my efforts are not ended.

Artifacters got em cool, but the poor fighter that spend hours praying for his life dont deserve some love?  In that case just say "Its an artifact improvement", dont sell it like the "so fun pve now" because ive seen nothing atm. Remember that artifact scanners just use light bots and geoscanner, minimal investment. They can get so much highly priced, obviously essential items i wonder why i continue ratting, even with a HM MK2 on the high end spawns, i feel like im losing my time...

And some wonder why theres no farmer on beta. 3 words: NOT WORTH IT. 
May i be clear, nothing gone worst since yesterday.  The game has improved, new feature, everyone happy.
But:

Since beta, i feel like every single decision is made against ratting.

*Kernels drop nerf: ok was needed to handle research rate... but who was impacted? One single playstyle thanks
*Dynamic spawns: well... im sure 95% of the peoples that came to the forum to say "thanks dev so fun cool cool" are NOT farming at all.. Anyhow with those spawns profit loss at least 40%
*New AI: frustration, 90% of spawns are in building or hard LOS terrain, come on get out of there little npc... when you go search them behind their wall 15 times in a day, you start to lose patience.

I could find more im sure...

Today, i launch the game just after the patch , discussing in gen chat:  15mn after server restart, some begin to talk about those distress beacons... im farming, time passes, i check gen chat.  Many peoples start to talk about their beacons, almost all (except one that told me otherwise) received them from artifacting. Time pass and situation still the same. So 2 solutions: almost everyone is artifacting, then you can understand where the problem lies, if nobody ratting anymore... oh ok that why nobody can buy kernels... logical.  Or the other solution, at server start peoples started to do what they usually do, some got to arti, some to farming. In that case that means those new funny items are far more easy to get while artifacting than farming.  Why? please explain me why? In 3 hours of artifact scanning, someone would have gotten at least 1 or 2 of them no?
OR i didnt shoot the right npcs (rabid elite M/HM) they are almost the strongest elites so what now? OR im such an unlucky whiner. Well i wont set a poll i know what 99% of you would vote... tongue

Frustration mode deactivated.

All in all im happy with the fast paced patching/feature development rate, its very nice to see the game improve.
But sometimes i feel like im gonna rage for real. Exactly like when elite mobs where added. The spawnrate at the beginning was so low, that was almost *** (one in 200 or maybe twice... or maybe half?) Im just hoping that will be somehow balanced, because from what ive seen so far, farming mobs =/= getting distress beacons.


Wow so much text just for ranting

TLDR:  Droprate too low for the new items, at least in comparison to artifacting. IF the item is REALLY RARE, then it must be hard to obtain by ANY mean. If its NOT SO RARE, why didnt i looted one in 3hrs of gaming?

Please feedback from other "dedicated NPC hunters" about droprate please.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Grim Faust wrote:

Stop whining about PvE and risk and reward and balance and blah blah blah.

It's a one shot beacon. You use it and you need to go farm more. It's not like a faucet for free loot. People don't need to be forced to go to beta to do PvE content. Beta is PvP. Stop mixing the 2 constantly, they don't need to intertwine all the time. The risk should be in the difficulty of the NPC's. If someone has the EP to do it, then why should they then be forced to also have to PvP to face PvE content? This game is too small for that crap.

Well said

15 (edited by Arga 2011-10-21 19:34:29)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Artifact hunters may get the beacons, but they certainly can't use them in thier light geoscanner bots.

There is absolutely nothing stopping said hunter/ratter from spending a little time getting some beacons, then going out and getting the reward.

This falls squarely under "I want to do it this way, so change it" even though the current method is fully available to everyone.

Edit : Spending some time artifact hunting that is.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Arga wrote:

Artifact hunters may get the beacons, but they certainly can't use them in thier light geoscanner bots.

Arties may get the beacon, and sell it lol. Money you know... No need to use it for profit.

There is absolutely nothing stopping said hunter/ratter from spending a little time getting some beacons, then going out and getting the reward.

Absolutely nothing?  Theres EP investment that come first into my mind, not everybody has miner alt you know...

This falls squarely under "I want to do it this way, so change it" even though the current method is fully available to everyone.

I didnt want to do anything this way. The devblog said it was possible so i tried. I didnt asked for elites to drop them, i was told so.

Edit : Spending some time artifact hunting that is.

^Answers^


well your right Arga like almost everytime wink  I was just a bit frustrated to discover its not items you can really get while farming thats all. Id prefer they be clear on this like "Maybe if your really lucky you will loot one on the already very limited in number elites".


The current method is not FULLY available to anyone. And id like you admit artifacting is getting more and more interesting, farming is getting less and less.

Nevermind but when there wont be any single kernel to sell on market (already? oh soz) because the ones that produce them are so rares that every kernel is spent to corp/personal research... well dont come cry then.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

This game has some problems with risk and reward:
f.e. resources for upgrading modules. t4 modules have slightly better parameters (300 meters (t1) 350 meters (t4)), and x3+ of materials to upgrade them from t1.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

The real money isn't in the beacons, its in the cascading to the upper level beacons, which you get from the NPC. I doubt the beacons will be that lucrative for the artifact hunter, worth looking for, but after the initial 'rush' wears off and players have dozens of the lowest level beacons (the only ones they can find, just a better chance on beta) I doubt they'll be more than 100k each.

Blog wrote:

Squad-type beacons and the lowest level commander beacons can be acquired from artifacts (with a higher chance on beta islands) or by looting certain elite NPCs. The higher level commander-type beacons are dropped by the robots you called in with your first beacons.

You were probably just farming the wrong elites, since it doesn't say 'all'. Try moving around a bit.

Yes, at this time, it made artifact hunting better. But once the beacons get "seeded", and that 'certain' elite is found, it will just be another 'so-so' item.

Also, the new tiers of modules drop from the NPC's, artifact hunters have no access to that (unless they use thier own beacons) It takes about 3 days of EP to scan for artifacts, and another 3 do be fairly good. The choice if you want to spend a week of EP on a combat character is up to you, but if your already into MK II Hmechs, your looking at weeks just to raise extensions by 1% ... not to mention combat characters can scan and kill thier own Infestation/Observer cahces for that investement, so it's not wasted.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Hum, how i can say that... you are right i was wrong. Maybe i just didnt farmed the good ones. And even in that case i admit i didnt think about the fact that artifact scanner can only get the first step. But i tough someone said he found a distress beacon rank 3 no star in an artifact... i tough every lvl could be looted in stashes. Considering all this, i admit ive 2 solutions: OR i want them badly by myself without buying, in that case i train geoscanner OR i dont really need them and can buy.

Your right about that patch, its too early to take conclusions.

BUT i insist on the fact ratter life is getting less and less profitable and easy. And the game world, the market, everyone need them just like prototypers/mass producers, miners and artifact runners.
I farm considerably and since many time. Ive done mining with friends alt, ive also participated in artifact etc...
Ratting sucks more and more and more, until nobody will do it anymore, except for finishing knwoledge base of corp prototypers.  You see many farming on beta? Not worth the risk.  On alpha?  I feel like i see less and less...
Biased opinion? certainly.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Once your able to solo 4th star mech groups, there's really no challenge to ratting, so I can see where it would get boring. Perp combat isn't very 'reactive', you basically target and shoot. If they happen to ECM you, retarget. Rinse/Repeat.

So, I can certainly agree that ratting isn't thrilling. Is it less profitable? maybe. The removal of the 5th tier spawns on beta with dynamic spawns probably did reduce NIC/hour. Will being able to farm NPC's through the beacon system make up for it, that remains to be seen. But it has the 'potential' to make farming beacons very, very profitable... but it will still be boring after you've done it 1000 times.

Hope is around the corner in the shape of I 2.0, but it may not be the NIC/hour boost with players occupying beta more, the PVP danger level for farming beta will go up drastically; but it will be more 'exciting' (I use quotes because I don't like my farming interrupted by PVP, but I'm a carebear, so my opinion is biased in that).

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

I dont like mine neither (farming interrupted by pvp) tongue

Lets wait and see how it comes. I just hope beta island are more populated, because tbh atm it quite saddens me.
And i dont speak only of my "home" island.

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Cobalt wrote:

I dont like mine neither (farming interrupted by pvp) tongue

Lets wait and see how it comes. I just hope beta island are more populated, because tbh atm it quite saddens me.
And i dont speak only of my "home" island.

[troll] I presume you live on Alsbale?  Why would you care if the other islands are populated or not, none of the inhabitants of Alsbale ever venture out to other beata islands...[/troll] tongue

+1
-Confucius

23 (edited by Evernigh 2011-10-23 18:01:04)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

NJust a quick thing we ran a certain spawn for two hours getting three beacons but only got them from the highest tier elite spawns so i think its probably just luck I think the rate should be increased but not by much they still need to be rare if this is the case that some people are farming forever and not getting any. Fyi was a one bar star and two two bar squads tht dropped.

24 (edited by Syrissa 2011-10-24 16:41:42)

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Kaldenines wrote:
Cobalt wrote:

I dont like mine neither (farming interrupted by pvp) tongue

Lets wait and see how it comes. I just hope beta island are more populated, because tbh atm it quite saddens me.
And i dont speak only of my "home" island.

[troll] I presume you live on Alsbale?  Why would you care if the other islands are populated or not, none of the inhabitants of Alsbale ever venture out to other beata islands...[/troll] tongue


[troll]thats because we get enough ppl to come to our island. so we have plenty of targets to shoot at. why heading far when the prey comes to your door? lol[/troll]

Re: Bad balance of risk and reward

Kaldenines wrote:

[troll] I presume you live on Alsbale?  Why would you care if the other islands are populated or not, none of the inhabitants of Alsbale ever venture out to other beata islands...[/troll] tongue

You presume wrong smile