CenDre wrote:

DIZI is the only one who is understanding what I have said.

Many of us understand DIZI and you, the thing people argue with you over is that you both think....

"I was able to play EVE despite it has same PvP problems" quoted from DIZI.

This is a PvP game, it does not have these "PvP problems" it is a feature of the game that is a big draw for many, as several people have said, this is a niche game, it and EvE cater to the more hardcore players that WANT that PvP experience.

You say; "Not a single PvP orient game out today has attracted more than a few thousand die hard pvpers. Where are those games now or will be soon. Broke and free to play."

EvE is quite successful, most reviewers compare many other semi-or full PvP games to EvE because it is successful. EvE has a higher retention rate than most other games, because so much of the content is player driven (which means mostly PvP and conflict driven). People have a hand in what happens and the game history rather than running scripted PvE instances, missions, and content over and over until they are mind-numb.
It does not have the numbers that WoW does, it never will, it WANTS to be in the niche it is in, Perpetuum is looking for a similar niche.
Do not even try to make the "WoW has it right, these companies should all try to be like WoW" argument either. You can get a cheeseburger at McDonalds, but there are other restaurants that sell cheeseburgers, not all should mimic McDonalds. McDonalds is not right for everyone, all the time, neither is WoW, and all the other generic will-inevitably-get-boring PvE games out there.

You and DIZI are coming into Mexican restaurant, demanding a 99 cent cheeseburger then you wonder why people tell you you are in the wrong place.

CenDre wrote:

Purely fictional numbers with the simple idea of illustraiting a point.

Lets say we have 50,000 gamers
PvPers make up 1% of the population
PvEers make up 90%
Semi PvRers make up 9%

N
My proposal
All of the PvPers and Semi PvPers AND 30% of the PvEers
this would be 20,000 paying accounts.

How much do you think the DEVs can do with the cash flow from 20,000 paying account  75% of which come from the PVE player base.

Is it sinking in at alllll. Do you understand what I am saying.

The game needs PvE gamers to make money plain and simple. I don't think there are enough Pvpers around to make the game feasibly profitable but you can bet your *** there are enough PvEers.

My simple solution to the issue of cramming PvP and PvE players in close quarters is don't give them more space to enjoy the aspect of the game they chose. Don't change the game at all just add space. The Devs can add PvE content later, maybe in a future expansion. Eve did it with wormhole space.

I also think it is up to all of use to spread the work and suck people into the game so the game will be around a year from now so we can keep having fun.

I'm doing my part got 3 friends already signing on.

"Purely fictional numbers" that make no point because they are as fake and made up as your first set of crap numbers.....

We have proven most of your claims as false, start using facts.

Done with arguments with you, the terms, argument, numbers, and your sense of reality changes everytime anyone makes a point, I do NOT understand you because you are not even lucid in your own arguments, I hope i never understand someone that constantly creates their own reality. I cede the field to your obvious supremacy in the field of illusion.

I'm a carebear but I like swimming with sharks. Stop making generalisations about 'carebears' some of us also accept the risks in a PvP game and find it adds excitement. Just need to approach the game for what it is and play it to its full.

CenDre wrote:

DIZI is the only one who is understanding what I have said.

Many of us understand DIZI and you, the thing people argue with you over is that you both think....

"I was able to play EVE despite it has same PvP problems" quoted from DIZI.

This is a PvP game, it does not have these "PvP problems" it is a feature of the game that is a big draw for many, as several people have said, this is a niche game, it and EvE cater to the more hardcore players that WANT that PvP experience.

You say; "Not a single PvP orient game out today has attracted more than a few thousand die hard pvpers. Where are those games now or will be soon. Broke and free to play."

EvE is quite successful, most reviewers compare many other semi-or full PvP games to EvE because it is successful. EvE has a higher retention rate than most other games, because so much of the content is player driven (which means mostly PvP and conflict driven). People have a hand in what happens and the game history rather than running scripted PvE instances, missions, and content over and over until they are mind-numb.
It does not have the numbers that WoW does, it never will, it WANTS to be in the niche it is in, Perpetuum is looking for a similar niche.
Do not even try to make the "WoW has it right, these companies should all try to be like WoW" argument either. You can get a cheeseburger at McDonalds, but there are other restaurants that sell cheeseburgers, not all should mimic McDonalds. McDonalds is not right for everyone, all the time, neither is WoW, and all the other generic will-inevitably-get-boring PvE games out there.

You and DIZI are coming into Mexican restaurant, demanding a 99 cent cheeseburger then you wonder why people tell you you are in the wrong place.

Do not want.

greater risk = greater reward. If you don't want to get ganked, bring friends or stay home. They will most likely add content on both sides of the PvP/PvE spectrum. But for an indie game what they have now as a core is absolutely fantastic.

Not to turn this into a PvE vs PvP thread, because thats not its intent. But, the OP has several good points.

Although, I strongly disgaree with her assertion that 99% of the gaming population is PVE  and <1% is pvp. The fact is, 99% of the population is like me and is somewhere in the middle. People want both. That said, the OP is right about it in general because PvP is nice but a VAST majority of people spend their time doing MOSTLY PvE.

EVE has always been a sucessful game. But the populations didnt skyrocket until more recently when the added PvE content was implemented.

Unfortunately, PvP'ers tend to be most vocal in forums. They are a very vocal minority.

Jerokane wrote:

I guess it must come as a shock to you that the vast majority of EVE players are so called PVE carebears hanging around in High Sec space (recent numbers showing that about 95% of the players are hanging around in High Sec Space).

CCP tried desperately to get more of their population to PVP by bringing PVP to High Sec space with Factional Warfare...... and failed.

0.0 space is vast and barren of players.  You got the occasional large PVP zerg now and then between big Alliances.
But mostly it's the ocasional pirate player trying to jump on the unaware noob exploring 0.0 space.

I have been involved in 0.0 space Alliance warfare myself and I found it absolutely boring as hell. They were just lagging zerg fests. That's it.
Not to mention that you could easily travel dozens and dozens of 0.0 systems without encountering a single soul.

I had more thrilling PVP experiences in low sec space, running into pirate players, then I ever had with those largscale Alliance zergfests, wich most of the time were nothing but hours and hours of "a sit and wait for something to happen" game.

High Sec space in EVE however is always crammed and crawling with players. Hundreds and hundreds in each system.

That's why CCP came up with Worm Holes to create more engaging PVE content and now keeps cranking out more and more diverse PVE content the past year or two. And will continue to do so.
And that's why they also work on Incarnia and release real player avatars.

Just face it. If we like it or not. PVP only players are the tiny minority in the big MMO scheme of things.
Most MMO players are just simply Carebears, or people like me, who like both PVE and PVP!

Most importantly, that without these so called PVE carebears, this game would die instantly, just like EVE Online would.
Or do you just want to fly / ride around in starter noob ships / bots all the time? As that would be the only thing available to you.

Cheers

First, You or Wraith (or both) are making up numbers.....95% stay in high sec???? really????.....oh, and hundreds and hundreds of people in each system in high sec? What do you travel only to Jita in high sec?,
Making up numbers seem common in this thread, as i have said to others, use facts.

Second, i have said a few times that i am a carebear, not sure if you missed that or even read more than the last page or two (apologies if you did). My comments in the last page or two of this thread are in response to obviously BS numbers, claims, and assertions, stating that PvP players are an incredibly tiny percentage of the population of these games (i cannot say exactly how many, the number of PvPers in Perp has changed from .3 players to 3 or 4 in this thread, i lose count)and that PvP is a "problem" that games such as EvE and Perp needs to deal with so the real gamers (over 90%) in these games can play the way it should be.

Third, I totally agree with you about lowsec in EvE, lowsec is far more dangerous than nullsec, when making mad dashes hauling various merchandise i am on high adrenaline pushing through low, and relax  a bit (only a bit) by just dropping into null. What point all this has to do with the original discussion i do not know, other than to show i know what you mean......oh, and to ask, why are null sec alliance fights lag-fests? If very few were there then there would be no more lag than in the high sec systems that have hundreds of players in them.........oh, wait, it is because there are so many ships, so many people shooting, warping in/out, gating in, etc. that you often are dead for ten minutes before even finding out you died.......

Quit blowing your numbers out of proportion, i actually agree with much of your point, and even some of the OP's point, But both are so far out on the extremes that you hurt what you are trying to gain.