Topic: Some impressions from a new player.

OK while I rather like the game's basic idea, I think it's severely lacking in some areas and will ultimately turn off way more people than it should, to list a few of the issues:

1)The tutorial missions. I've a friend who's tried to get started 3 times, and quit 3 times, because the tutorial missions are so absurdly long and dragged out. The very first one is a perfect example of this: Go to points a,b,c, and d, which is going to take you something absurd like 15 minutes to accomplish. No, 15 minutes is not a lot of time in an MMO, but when said 15 minutes is the duration of a tutorial on WALKING, it does not bode well for the prospective player.

Hell the entire tutorial is at least 5 times as long as it should be. IMO it should be made into 2 missions, one that entails going out and shooting a bunch of things, and one that entails mining (maybe give the mining bot instead of the combat one if you pick the latter). Once we've proven that we know how to find a waypoint, we really shouldn't have to do it several more times.

2)Assignments. You need more of them. Seriously. Let's say I want to do some shooting to earn my nic, I enter a terminal, look up bounty missions, and see...two missions. Really? Not only that, but one of them entails an absurd amount of walking to actually shoot anything. Travel times should not be so high, and the distance you need to cover should be relatively small for new player missions. This basically leaves me with "Shoot 6 more of the guys you just shot 6 of" as my only viable option.

3)Camera control: There's a reason most games keep your movement and camera angle separate, or at least gives you the option to separate them. Left click+drag moves the camera, right click+drag changes your direction. It is a tried and true way to deal with camera v direction traveled.

Here's hoping someone takes this criticism to heart, because this game does look like it has potential, it's just still a tad rough around the edges.

2 (edited by Alexander 2011-04-16 06:59:15)

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

This post will be focus on just the tutorial aspect as outlined in the OP's post. Read on only if you're interested!

The OP is completely correct!
The tutorial should have at least three stages. Stage 1 is learning the basics and a little combat (1 drone and perhaps targeting the practise target). Stage 2 should be combat based and stage 3 should be industrial based. Break the stages down into about a maxium of 5 assignments each and make them optional. Stage 1 will get you the Arkhe MK2 and will complete the transport assignment. Stage 1 will be the longest but the most important. Skipping Stage 2 and 3 would then be optional but at least the most important information would be out of the way first.

Stage 2 would give you your combat light robot and Stage 3 would give you a choice of either an Argano or a Laird. (Not both).

Stage one (Basic training):

  • All new players would START with this assignment already active. It would be a small amount of text explaining the game as simply as possible and explaining where the help files are available. It should explain the extension system briefly as well as the EP system. It should also explain the story line in a very small amount of detail as this is missed by most new players currently.

  • Move around, target the practise target.
    Reward: Some bullets, Standard Small Armour Repairer and NIC

  • Kill two drones
    Reward: A Standard Lightweight Frame and NIC

  • Go to another terminal
    Reward: 2 Standard Autocannons weapons and NIC

  • Return from that terminal
    Reward: Arkhe MK2 and NIC

Stage two (Military training):

  • Kill five Factional Drones
    Reward: (2 Factional Weapons, Basic ammo*) and NIC

  • Kill three Rank 0 NPC's
    Reward: Standard Sensor Amp and NIC

  • Kill 3 Rank 1 NPC's
    Reward: Factional light robot and NIC

Stage three (Industry):

  • Area and Tile Geoscan for newbie material
    Reward: Titan ore area and tile geoscanner charges, Titan mining charges and NIC

  • Area and Tile Geoscan for Titan and extract 2500 units
    Reward: 2 Standard Miner Modules and NIC

  • (Reverse Engineer Tutorial Item **)
    Reward: NIC

  • (Produce 1 unit of Tutorial Item ***)
    Reward: Standard Industry Robot, choice between Argano or Laird and NIC.

NIC Rewards should always be around the same value as 4 reloads of ammo @ NPC prices. Giving too much NIC is a bad thing but they need to be able to purchase enough ammo and not get a false sense of scale which the current tutorial gives.

If a Dev reads this and thinks "I like the idea but that would mean implementing a few new systems" then there is something very wrong with the systems already in place. If new players are meant to enjoy the game within the first few hours of playtime it's not happening this the current tutorial.

* This will act as a large hint that there are other weapons and while continuing to use bullets is a valid option they should also explore what other weapons do.

** Level 1 Decoder would be required. I suggest not giving one for free but that is an option. New players should get used to using the market. They need the full experience. If they can't find a level 1 decoder on the market then something is very wrong and decoders should be investigated as no one but utter newbies should be using level 1 decoders but they should still be worth selling on the market. If decoder market is bad they should be seeded but for more expensive than current trends (Around 10k is good for an NPC seed).

*** The CT created from reverse engineering should be completed in under 10 minutes (It needs to be stated that this will be much faster than items will reverse engineer outside the tutorial. The CT should also not be usable, installable or tradeable. The CT should require a very small amount of Titanium, around 50 units.

The Game

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

+1 Alex

Thanks to the OP for the input and prompting Alex to respond with something I think could help the beginning game play for new players.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

One type of assignment that is missing is the Meta assignment, that asks you to complete a series of assignments, then rewards you for that.

Meta assignments help guide new players by grouping assignments to give a better picture of how the game operates, for instance a meta assignment for mining would include a market assignment of buying charges, a geo scanning assignment, as well as the actual mineral gathering; or simply complete 3 combat assignments. The reward would be specific to the group, like ammo, charges, or even a kernel for industry related.

Only 1 meta assignment can be active, and it does not count against your assignment limit.

Different levels of meta would provide different rewards, and with the timed system coming, better or worse based on performance.

I think it would also be more engaging if there was a choice of rewards, perhaps a mining laser instead of a faction weapon.

My only note on Alex's list, is that Sensor amps are expensive, and I think the tutorial only gives a syntec one, which I think is appropriate as it leads the new player to the market and the concept of upgrading equipment.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

When I first started, I never even bothered with the tutorial missions until someone told me you could get your free bot at the end of it.

Agree with Alex's suggestion.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

+1 on Alex

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Charox, are you still around? Any new observations after another weekend of play?

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

More of the same really. Point 1 no longer applies to me but 2 and 3 are still rather annoying, and I can't shake the feeling that the game lacks...depth. But then, given how new it is, that's not surprising.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Devs are continually working to improve the game, and there are new Islands due out soon, which is going to shake things up for a little while.

Not sure if anyone mentioned that the Navigation extension under Robot control helps you move faster, which cuts down a little on travel times. Also, its one of the skills that you can't go wrong by increasing while you determine what role you want to do in game.

GL!

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

I think the Reverse Engineering should be ammo. Newbies have a hard time getting ammo.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

I have been tinkering with the game now for a few days and as I was creating my avatar I got really stoked about using missiles as a primary source of damage. You start out with a single gun turret (which is not a problem). I did a few starter quests and got enough NIC to buy a missile launcher from the market only to find out that I couldn't actually buy it. I presume that eventually I could kill something that would drop a missile launcher but I'd much rather test it out before my 15 days expired to see if missiles was what I actually wanted to go with instead of lasers or guns or w/e and before I put too many points into the related extensions.

Maybe they could introduce some sort of sandbox mech you could create just to try out various weapon types and see what the equipment can do.

Also, for anyone who has never played and MMO but loves the Mechwarrior games this game does a very bad job of explaining anything in the beginning. A lot of people who have never touched an MMO probably won't stick around. I am going to give it a few more days before I decide if I'm going to fork over $10 for a month on a full account (which in all respects could totally win me over with the game).

I do like that they are pushing out big content updates in the way of doubling the land mass. Sadly there is a lot of running and the OP has a major point in regards to that.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

I remember the days, when the path between the outpost and the teleporter was uphill; both ways. Kids with thier highways have it so easy... smile

The different factions are specialized to use certain weapons. Yellow bots, Theoldica: Prometheus, are designed for lasers but have one missle slot; while green bots, Pelistal: Castel have 4 missle slots and 1 turret.

Your not specifically locked into a particular bot, but your starting EP gives you a boost in the Faction you chose during character creation.

There is a 1 time free account reset, after you subscribe, where you delete your agents and can start over from scratch. You can reset your account again, but it will cost you EP to do so.

Have fun!

PS. Just a few minutes of grinding on the Pestial bots will get missles to drop. If your not a green bot, use the TP's to go to Truehold Markson Island and you'll find lots of bots dropping those launchers.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Arga wrote:

I remember the days, when the path between the outpost and the teleporter was uphill; both ways. Kids with thier highways have it so easy... smile

So true.

Arga wrote:

PS. Just a few minutes of grinding on the Pestial bots will get missles to drop. If your not a green bot, use the TP's to go to Truehold Markson Island and you'll find lots of bots dropping those launchers.

Also running green transport missions out of TMA awards missles; ones you can't make

Some corps will front you ammo, sometimes generous players do too.  I gave 3k volcano laser ammo to some random guy on trial a few days ago, I'm sure other players do too.

I've written some caustic posts in the past about the game but truth is the longer you're in the better it gets, the first 30 to 45 days were the hardest for me, always feeling gimped no matter what I did. 

I got killed 13 times total (including a few npcs deaths but mostly getting ganked in pvp) before I got a my first kill (solo) and it's been worth it and I expect that it will just continue to get better as I gain EP and personal experience in game.

The Devs are solid, they clearly enjoy their work and while still their choice for server location is a bad one from a latency perspective the actual servers themselves have been stable.

The learning curve and character development curve are definitely steeper time and patience wise than what I'm used to (even as an old school pen and paper roleplayer) but I think I'll likely be around awhile.

As far as the guy talking about depth, a lot of that comes with learning player politics, player history and engaging in 'meta-gaming' to some extent; at least in my opinion.

The community here, despite some of their trolling and whatnot is pretty good and definitely well above your average theme park MMO.

People willing to put together tournaments and races, people doing podcasts, people posting videos, people going out of their way to promote the game in other venues so we can get more targe... err players ;D 

All of these things add to the immersion for me even if I'm not always an active participant myself.

I should also point out you can get a steep discount in sub prices by buying multi-month codes instead of month to month.  It's basically half off if you buy a year, which as my original 90 days + 15 day trial are running out on my first account I'm seriously considering.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

charox wrote:

3)Camera control: There's a reason most games keep your movement and camera angle separate, or at least gives you the option to separate them. Left click+drag moves the camera, right click+drag changes your direction. It is a tried and true way to deal with camera v direction traveled.

Frankly we just took standard 3rd Person Shooter controls into consideration and built it accordingly.

CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

The Devs are solid, they clearly enjoy their work and while still their choice for server location is a bad one from a latency perspective the actual servers themselves have been stable.

Bad one perhaps, but necessary one considering it's still the best option over here.

[14:15:15] <Freya Sabbat> ...Dear god, the Devs are as bad as us

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

.. but, but Perpetuum is an MMO not a 3rd person shooter, and you spent a lot of time on making the world good looking, its natural they want to view it.

If the UI control developer was sitting around idle, I'd say add this, but I doubt its a dedicated programmer, so ignore this and keep working on POS. smile

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

DEV Gargaj wrote:
charox wrote:

3)Camera control: There's a reason most games keep your movement and camera angle separate, or at least gives you the option to separate them. Left click+drag moves the camera, right click+drag changes your direction. It is a tried and true way to deal with camera v direction traveled.

Frankly we just took standard 3rd Person Shooter controls into consideration and built it accordingly.

CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

The Devs are solid, they clearly enjoy their work and while still their choice for server location is a bad one from a latency perspective the actual servers themselves have been stable.

Bad one perhaps, but necessary one considering it's still the best option over here.

Gargaj, your beard, it's epic.... please continue...

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

I wanted to give a +1 to point 3 to the OP.  Today was my first day and I can't stand the camera controls.

How do you guys PVP without being able to look around while you're heading in a certain direction?  Say I wanted to run away from someone but wanted to look behind me while I ran.  Can't do it with the current controls because a camera look isn't built in.

I don't understand the big issue either.  Make left click still do what it does, but have drag left click move the camera freely.  This is very hard to adjust to considering every other MMO I've ever played operates this way and this just doesn't feel... natural.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Javrixx wrote:

I don't understand the big issue either.  Make left click still do what it does, but have drag left click move the camera freely.  This is very hard to adjust to considering every other MMO I've ever played operates this way and this just doesn't feel... natural.

Go to the 'Keyboard" menu and assign a key to "Free camera rotate". While holding this button down, the mouse will only rotate the camera, rather than control the robot.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Javrixx wrote:

I wanted to give a +1 to point 3 to the OP.  Today was my first day and I can't stand the camera controls.

How do you guys PVP without being able to look around while you're heading in a certain direction?  Say I wanted to run away from someone but wanted to look behind me while I ran.  Can't do it with the current controls because a camera look isn't built in.

I don't understand the big issue either.  Make left click still do what it does, but have drag left click move the camera freely.  This is very hard to adjust to considering every other MMO I've ever played operates this way and this just doesn't feel... natural.

i would say - if you rely in pvp on AUTORUN and only mousecontrols, your almost deemed to die anyway.

you can fully control the camera while navigating with WASD or using "aproach" on a groundtile (doubleclicking on ground)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

DEV Calvin wrote:
Javrixx wrote:

I don't understand the big issue either.  Make left click still do what it does, but have drag left click move the camera freely.  This is very hard to adjust to considering every other MMO I've ever played operates this way and this just doesn't feel... natural.

Go to the 'Keyboard" menu and assign a key to "Free camera rotate". While holding this button down, the mouse will only rotate the camera, rather than control the robot.

I will do that.  But I would like to suggest adding an option to customize what my mouseclicks do.  For example, my mouse has 8 buttons but I can't bind anything to them.  I'm used to binding mouse button 4 to autorun in other MMOs I've played.

On that note, giving the option to just free camera rotate without holding a key would be nice.  Not everyone likes default camera settings, as seen in this thread, and some customization in that regard would be awesome.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Annihilator wrote:
Javrixx wrote:

I wanted to give a +1 to point 3 to the OP.  Today was my first day and I can't stand the camera controls.

How do you guys PVP without being able to look around while you're heading in a certain direction?  Say I wanted to run away from someone but wanted to look behind me while I ran.  Can't do it with the current controls because a camera look isn't built in.

I don't understand the big issue either.  Make left click still do what it does, but have drag left click move the camera freely.  This is very hard to adjust to considering every other MMO I've ever played operates this way and this just doesn't feel... natural.

i would say - if you rely in pvp on AUTORUN and only mousecontrols, your almost deemed to die anyway.

you can fully control the camera while navigating with WASD or using "aproach" on a groundtile (doubleclicking on ground)

That wasn't really what I meant, but take this example:

I'm being chased by 2 players.  While I'm running away from them, I'm holding W and I want to look behind me.  This simple act isn't possible unless I hold another key to free rotate the camera.  This requires two of my fingers to be occupied while they could do something else, like enable an ability, strafe, etc.

I'm not a clicker at all, I only use the mouse to camera view and to get the initial target.  The more available my fingers are the better.  Something as simple as running one direction and looking in the other direction, using only 1 key pressed, should be a no brainer.

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

I would suggest you bind your mouse buttons to specific keys in the mouse software, so you can bind 'free camera' to "&" in Perpetuum and then the "&" to mouse button 4.

23 (edited by Reanigael 2011-06-05 04:03:39)

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Im new as well, and just subscribed.  I barely did, and nearly didn't... and honestly, it was that first 15 minutes of play.  I know they say that the first few minutes a player decides whether to continue or not - I've usually slugged it out but I got really frustrated during the tutorial and I quit several times.

First, I was starting in a really ugly place, and I didn't like looking at it.  And then I was getting hopelessly lost in this ugly place.  Things weren't going well.

I didn't understand how to do anything except WASD which I didn't need to be instructed on... but did on just about everything else, and while the tutorial DID help, it took a long time doing so and it was complicated just the same.  I learned how to mine, and forgot how to mine!

I didn't understand how to lock targets very well until midway in the first 10 basic missions, and actually understood mining in the first 10. 

The best part about the tutorial was that it introduced me to this very complicated UI.  I've never played with a UI like this before, and it's a bit bizarre and data laden.  I'm not an MMO newbie, but I am to this type of 'spreadsheet' MMO.  The areas where the tutorial helped me to understand were the best part of the tutorial process.


Ultimately, the reason I subscribed was because of the 1) the GM who helped get me set up (whos name I unfortunately do not recall) but mostly the HELP channel. 

There are a few players in there who are absolutely sterling about explaining simple things without sarcasm or commentary that is ungentle.  All three of them took the time to answer HOURS (4 hours? It was a lot of asking questinos) of questions, give options if not suggestions.  I remember Carillons and Drahkars names that also had M2S, but Im sorry I am forgetting the player whos name starts with a J and has only 4 or 5 letters, but also has a NOFEAR next to it.

Anyways, out of the days I spent reading and typing in that channel, those guys are just exemplifying decency and kindness, and I felt if there were players like this in the game putting that kind of time and effort into helping new people without even once trying to recruit them, well - it had to be worth sticking around for.  Let's hope that's how it turns out!!!

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

Welcome aboard. Actually you will find that the community is the very best part of the game. Its a full pvp game though, so expect to get shot at if you go to the pvp islands, but also expect to see either 'good fight' and or some help on how to do better next time.

cheers!

25 (edited by Reanigeal Anam 2011-06-05 18:45:16)

Re: Some impressions from a new player.

. how did I end up on this character? hah