Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

i would ask both what they think of the planned "robot explosion splash damage" or AoE weapons.

one as representative of the attacking mech blob, and one as representative of the defending mech-blob.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Annihilator wrote:

i would ask both what they think of the planned "robot explosion splash damage" or AoE weapons.

one as representative of the attacking mech blob, and one as representative of the defending mech-blob.

You're wrongly assuming that they're both blobs.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Styx wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

i would ask both what they think of the planned "robot explosion splash damage" or AoE weapons.

one as representative of the attacking mech blob, and one as representative of the defending mech-blob.

You're wrongly assuming that they're both blobs.

Totaly agree with Styx on this one, Think about mabe you have a 7 vs 20 situation. happends very often now days. that gives the 7 peple the small help with Area of effect damage that Explotions and fireing gives to the "blob".

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Arachnix wrote:

Totaly agree with Styx on this one, Think about mabe you have a 7 vs 20 situation. happends very often now days. that gives the 7 peple the small help with Area of effect damage that Explotions and fireing gives to the "blob".

I'm not sure what you're agreeing with since I was only making a statement. I actually disagree with what you're saying. Unless AoE kills absolutely everyone on field when used it'll be just another tool that those with more people can use against those with less.

The only way you can kill a group bigger than yours is to whittle them down whilst not losing any of your own squad. No game mechanics will solve this however presenting people with more options will allow for more interesting and complex tactics and strategy. This added complexity is how small squads kill large ones, because the small squads can utilise the added level of complexity better than the large squad can. AoE damage isn't complex, it's really rather simple hence will benefit the larger squads that can utilise simpler mechanics more against smaller entities.

55 (edited by Annihilator 2011-04-16 17:44:16)

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

in the last video footage i watched, the attacking force was a bunch of dots cramped into an area of 200x200 m.

mostly for two reasons i guess:
1. to cover the ECM guy
2. to be in range of the Remote Repair guy.

its hard to find a real definition of "blob", but someone once told me, its a term for a bigger number of player moving together in a relative small area.

in that situation shown on the screenshot, the attacking force would have suffered many losses to a chain reaction if any of the heavy mechs would have exploded with a violent explosion.

edit:

Styx wrote:

You're wrongly assuming that they're both blobs.

yeah, sorry, after reviewing, only the attacking force could be called a blob formation

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

56 (edited by Styx 2011-04-16 17:54:28)

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Annihilator wrote:

:Stuff:

We're getting into semantics here but if you think the attacking force of 19 versus 46 in that very short snippet of a long fight was the "Blob" then you need your head checking. The M2S squad there was relatively small and extremely organised. We weren't in such a confined space because that's where the ECM or RR guy was, the squad was there because I told them to be. That's one of the defining characteristics I have for a blob, whether or not they can execute complex commands in an orderly and timely fashion, if you can't then you're probably part of a blob.

Your statement regarding blobs is also rather contradictory, you said that in the picture we were the blob however we were 19 versus 46.

Annihilator wrote:

It's hard to find a real definition of "blob", but someone once told me, its a term for a bigger number of player moving together in a relative small area.

However you are right in one sense Anni, in that very specific situation we would've had the most to lose should we have had AoE used against us.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

tbh i think the current blob mechanics are fine really. Nothing wrong with gangs in the fifties but its when they get in the hundreds that things get dumb. The current mechanics prevent that.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Jita wrote:

tbh i think the current blob mechanics are fine really. Nothing wrong with gangs in the fifties but its when they get in the hundreds that things get dumb. The current mechanics prevent that.

Current Mechanics? Interference needs to effect range significantly more or speed, otherwise it's a joke. As has been proved time and time again when no one pays any attention to it when creating your squad composition.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

thats because theres no group at the moment who can put a gang together big enough to need it. I suppose the question is does the game want fifty man gangs or does it want them smaller.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Jita wrote:

thats because theres no group at the moment who can put a gang together big enough to need it. I suppose the question is does the game want fifty man gangs or does it want them smaller.

Big enough to need what?

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

well if an alliance could put a hundred man group together the interference would be mentally bad. I dont doubt they'd do two groups of fifty.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Jita wrote:

well if an alliance could put a hundred man group together the interference would be mentally bad. I dont doubt they'd do two groups of fifty.

That's sort of my point. Even though people reach the maximum interference levels quite frequently nobody cares about it enough to split up their group. Interference as it stands is a joke.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Then I would say remove the cap on interference but splash damage from bot deaths is dumb.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Jita wrote:

Then I would say remove the cap on interference but splash damage from bot deaths is dumb.

Something we agree on. Interference should have the cap removed and it should effect the most important factors in combat such as locking range significantly more. The idea of splash damage on robot death sounds nice however it will harm those who are organised that keep their groups tight and coordinated versus what I would define as a "Blob" who are largely un-organised and spread out as a result. The only reason the "Blob" is as effective as we've seen is because their cumulative attributes such as HP and accumulator are greater along with the ability for someone taking damage to be absorbed by the group whilst continuing to push the smaller group away. Unless the smaller group can kill those in the larger group in their initial volley they are powerless.

65 (edited by Arachnix 2011-04-16 19:16:39)

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Styx wrote:

That's one of the defining characteristics I have for a blob, whether or not they can execute complex commands in an orderly and timely fashion, if you can't then you're probably part of a blob.

Your statement regarding blobs is also rather contradictory, you said that in the picture we were the blob however we were 19 versus 46.

Annihilator wrote:

It's hard to find a real definition of "blob", but someone once told me, its a term for a bigger number of player moving together in a relative small area.

However you are right in one sense Anni, in that very specific situation we would've had the most to lose should we have had AoE used against us.

So styx, do you mean a blob: as is a squad moving Together or is it an large amount of unorganiced people moving together? ... And what if there is a large Organiced squad moving together?  Iv herd a blob is a big amount of people moving toghether in thesame "squad" ( pack ) and having thesame goal, no diffrence what the outcome of orders is. i can say to my guys, act stupid and that makes it a blob? or a bunch of organiced people acting stupid ? :>

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Arachnix wrote:

So styx, do you mean a blob: as is a squad moving Together or is it an large amount of unorganiced people moving together? ... And what if there is a large Organiced squad moving together?  Iv herd a blob is a big amount of people moving toghether in thesame "squad" ( pack ) and having thesame goal, no diffrence what the outcome of orders is. i can say to my guys, act stupid and that makes it a blob? or a bunch of organiced people acting stupid ? :>

Where you're failing is by trying to have a single definition of a "Blob". Whether or not something is or isn't a blob depends on a variety of factors. I was simply stating one of those factors in my opinion.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

so, definition is - anything that acts as group with more members as the present m2s group is a blob. big_smile

the intereference system doesn't affect anyone, because when it takes place, its on both partys (negating the effect in total). Its one of the reasons i was against a debuff.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Annihilator wrote:

so, definition is - anything that acts as group with more members as the present m2s group is a blob. big_smile

It seems you've completely failed to either read or understand my post since I explicitly stated that there is no single definition of a blob.

Annihilator wrote:

the intereference system doesn't affect anyone, because when it takes place, its on both partys (negating the effect in total). Its one of the reasons i was against a debuff.

This is not why the interference system doesn't work. The interference system is designed to project negative effects onto those who form up with significant numbers of people in a confined space. The current effects exerted when these circumstances are met are not sufficient enough for the people being effected to change their group composition meaning that the overwhelming large group of people so close together that you cannot engage them in any form other than suicide will stay just that, interference or not.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Styx wrote:

This is not why the interference system doesn't work. The interference system is designed to project negative effects onto those who form up with significant numbers of people in a confined space. The current effects exerted when these circumstances are met are not sufficient enough for the people being effected to change their group composition meaning that the overwhelming large group of people so close together that you cannot engage them in any form other than suicide will stay just that, interference or not.

and there are you wrong - thats not the intention of the interference system. Your missing an important part of it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Annihilator wrote:

and there are you wrong - thats not the intention of the interference system. Your missing an important part of it.

The main factors at play are that we don’t have robot collisions or friendly fire, and these two factors allow for large numbers of players to move as a single, small unit and one-shot-kill anyone they see. Fixing this issue is quite a tough challenge

From the developer blog. Insert another coin and try again.

Re: Episode 2 - Incoming Transmission Podcast

Styx wrote:
Arachnix wrote:

So styx, do you mean a blob: as is a squad moving Together or is it an large amount of unorganiced people moving together? ... And what if there is a large Organiced squad moving together?  Iv herd a blob is a big amount of people moving toghether in thesame "squad" ( pack ) and having thesame goal, no diffrence what the outcome of orders is. i can say to my guys, act stupid and that makes it a blob? or a bunch of organiced people acting stupid ? :>

Where you're failing is by trying to have a single definition of a "Blob". Whether or not something is or isn't a blob depends on a variety of factors. I was simply stating one of those factors in my opinion.

Just wanted your opinion, nothing more nothing less. allways fun to see what others calling the things i thought was something else.

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off.