1

(12 replies, posted in General discussion)

Awesome to see more than 30 in GC big_smile Congrats Dev's, lets hope this leads to bigger and better things.. not just tapper off and slide into what it was before:)

Cheers

Duma

2

(151 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Duma: that's a very noble way of thinking, and how it should be, but unfortunately you're the 1% of players.

We'll likely re-introduce red NPCs to Alpha2 in the future once we figured out how to do it properly, but quite honestly right now I would be better off without the daily tickets of "xy pulled NPCs on me and I demand my bot back".

Doubt I'm part of the 1%.. we are all arseholes one way or another.. I mean hell this is the internet and robots is serious business(tm). lol big_smile I remember dropping a beacon on a enemy mining group some time back when they aggrooed anything near them and letting the fun start..

What you are telling me here is, "red is ok, but our players are using it to annoy other players.." sandbox right? So what you are saying is game mechanics is causing this problem.. not the players. The players will take what ever the game provides and they can to do what ever they want. It has to be considered every changed that is made that it will be exploited or used to grief someone.. Walls.. man.. its covered in walls!!

My Granddad god rest his drunken soul, had a saying, "Son, if I give ya a inch, you will take a mile".

I understand you should turn the orange back on alpha 2, but do not forget this discussion. We want a challenge and we want to be challenged.. not easy mode smile

Duma

3

(151 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'll ask back: is there any real reason to have red NPCs on Alpha2? They are tougher than on Alpha1 either way if you attack them, so pretty much the only effect they caused was sending you around them if you didn't want to fight.

Yes, Alpha2 is supposed to be a more dangerous place than Alpha1, the problem is that players make it more dangerous than intended.

I'll answer this from my perspective, others may have a different perspectives. The NPC's here are part of what we all call "content", they are meant to put forward as a reason and challenge to us players. When we all started all mobs were red. We, through loss and adventure learned the ways of the spawns, learned what we could and could not do, understood our limitations. With the introduction of orange spawns the fear and the understanding of mobs just disappeared. Why, because we could just motor through them without a care in the world.. "hey we need a sequer to the mining op, but make sure you go around that spawn here as they demob" they won't care about us, unless we shoot. Ok, so lets go to the 2 bot NPC spawn, because hey that's easy.. new players learn nothing.. hey lets aggro these orange spawns, that is spread right out.. so then we get a single bot at a time aggroing us.. it doesn't make for anything that can panic or concern you. Achieving something that you didn't think you could do, that is what keeps players here.. not mobs that ignore you.

You talk about retaining people, Alpha 1 is a perfect place for orange mobs everywhere. Its a place to further learn and understand game mechanics and to grind away so that you can "progress" in the game. Alpha two, has harder mobs, yes but where is the risk?

The best fun we had on alpha 2 was when we had moving spawns, observers, some nasty spawns, NPCS that would target a sequer who had lost concentration. Call out in the old TOG corp would build a defense group to go remove these away from the miners.. or a call from a member who pulled a bit to much NPC hate and we would go assist, a rescue party to collect the belongings of a fellow player who took on to much.. this is CONTENT. This is what makes the game fun, you seem to forget what happens in a corp even on a Alpha island, we create our own content from what occurs on the island.

So you ask why we need red on Alpha, its to create more content, by going orange, how is this any more challenging than staying on Alpha 1? I can choose who I shoot, i can sit and mine AFK for 6-8 hours.. where is the rush, the planning, the working together?

I'm not saying turn everything red, but you have completely screwed in my mind the balance of Alph1, Alpha 2 and Beta.. they are meant to be stepping blocks, to teach and educate on game mechanics and risk vs reward.

So again my suggestion -

1. Alpha 1 always orange spawns.
2. Alpha 2, orange spawns for missions, red/orange spawns mixed over the island.

Finally, the "the problem is that players make it more dangerous than intended" comment is confusing. Perhaps your entire player base has different understanding of alpha 1, alpha 2 and beta.. if the jump from alpha 2 to beta is so huge ( as it is ), then please educate us to your understanding on how this all works, because frankly a care bear who enjoys PvE will grow bored of Alpha 2 in a month without any "brown pants" moments. I know we did once you oranged the world.. we lost players because it was boring.

IMHO smile

Duma

4

(151 replies, posted in General discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Well... tried to keep it interesting as much as we could but it doesn't work apparently. We'll change all alpha 2 NPCs to orange.

Can we compromise here? Instead of all orange on alpha 2, have a mix? Orange where missions send you, red/orange mixed depending on how close they are to say a station/teleporter?

I do agree with Cassius to a point, but also it should not be "easy mode". Alpha 2 is a logical step for PvE players once they outgrown alpha 1, the mobs are harder, but the risk vs reward should also be balanced. Just putting everything to orange is a major yawn fest.

Just a suggestion smile

Duma

G'day all,
I'm pretty sure a few of these have been discussed over the years, but I wanted to put this out anyway to get peoples ideas as they have been bugging me for some time.

One thing we need to do is add more things to do for people on a Alpha and even Beta islands. To me adding content or more sand is a good step in the right direction to hold on to new players. The aim is thinking what we can do to enhance the experience so that we retain people who later become targets smile

So here are a few ideas to start with using existing mechanics in the game ( as we know the Dev's only have so much time ).

tl;dr: hey just some ideas to try and think of things we can add to the game without massive amount of redesign or changes to the game smile

In summary -

1. Invasions
2. NPC Bounty Hunting
3. Energy harvesting and credits
4. Bring back low level observers to Alpha 2!

More details, though I'm sure they could be fleshed out more. These are just ideas smile

1. Invasions.

BackStory
The different factions ( Blue, yellow, green ) are at war. Have been at war beyond the recorded time of history. They are still pushing back on the Alpha islands, against the invaders ( us ) and their Nia enemies. They launch assaults on the alpha/beta islands, trying to recover land lost and to find weakness in the defences.

Locations - Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2.

Mechanics
Using the circle mechanic from missions a purple circle appears on the mini map of all agents on the island ( random time, semi random location ). In the centre a "I" icon is shown for a invasion. The size of the purple circle also gives indication of the size of the invasion. Small/medium and large. Clicking on there "I" in the mini map give you a mission to destroy as many bots in the area to defend the island. The bots spawns are specific to the Invasion.

Using the same mechanics as the beacons, in the circle region red bots spawn. The bots are specific to the invasion group, i.e say a blue spawn group on a Green island. They need to be destroyed to enable the next upgraded version to spawn till the last spawn is destroyed. In a small area, perhaps 3 spawn areas, medium 5-7, and large 7-10. The bots spawned are specific to the invasion.

The invasion is timed, such as 1 hour. At 1 hour they de-spawn and the Invasion finishes. Of course if the spawns are destroyed first this also completes the spawn. This is a public event, work together or as a team.

Depending on the island type, the size of the invasion depends on the bot type spawned. Alpha 1, low level to medium level bots for 1-5 players, Alpha 2 medium to high level for 3-10 players. Beta high to extreme, 5-15 players. Of course rewards scale as do drops.

Reward ideas
Island colour specific rewards depending on number of destroyed bots. Scalable. Also rep for the colour specific island group and money rewards.

2. NPC Bounty Hunters

BackStory
Senior bots have been causing the local group problems, causing bots to rise up against the invaders. A price has been put on their head. Go out and find and destroy the trouble maker and their guards.

Locations - Alpha 1, Alpha 2

Mechanics
A new Tab in the mission window shows NPC bounty hunters with a list of the current island based bounties. these are NPC's with specific names which may or may also have defence team or guard. When a agent agrees to accept the bounty ( multiple people can do so, so its first in first dressed, if you fail you get nothing ). At accepting the Bounty, randomly around the island the bots associated with this bounty spawn. A medium to large circle appears in the area the bot can be found. Again the agent has a limited time to find and destroy the NPC. the NPC will then drop a item that needs to be returned to the agent for reward. Note can be accepted as a solo or group. If someone else destroys the NPC, without the mission they cannot return the item.

Again this scales based on your rep and the level of the NPC. Once spawned the NPC will only last 1-2 hours before unspawning and the mission is failed for anyone who has it.

Reward ideas
Same as missions. Perhaps a neg effect on your Rep?

3. Energy harvesting and credits

Backstory
Pretty sure we are here for the energy that Nia can provide. Plus this is already started to be fleshed out some time ago but got lost in the past. The idea is to harvest energy from the planet and to send it back to earth. But taking from Nia won't go unnoticed, its dangerous and the locals won't let us take energy without a fight.

Locations - Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta and Gamma

Mechanics
A number of new items are needed. Firstly for geoscanners we need full range of charges to find energy fields on the islands, they use the same idea as ore fields, except they can only be found at night. Once found they can be harvested any time, be it day or night.

Deployable harvest modules. These are used to harvest energy from the fields at a standard rate. They have limited amounts of power harvested, but improve the higher the tech level. For example:

T1 Deployable Energy Harvester - Cycle time 1.5 seconds, Total energy stored 500 units, HPs 3500, Size 20U
T2 Deployable Energy Harvester - Cycle time 1.5 seconds, Total energy stored 750 units, HPs 4000, Size 25U
T3 Deployable Energy Harvester - Cycle time 1.5 seconds, Total energy stored 1000 units, HPs 5000, Size 35U
T4 Depolyable Energy Harvester - Cycle time 1.5 seconds, Total energy stored 1200 units, HPs 6000, size 45U

Of course the fields available on different islands also show the risk. Higher amounts on higher islands. Small amounts on Alpha islands, more on alpha 2 and most on Beta/Gamma. The risk is also different depending on where it is deployed.

Once a energy field is found at night, a Energy harvester can be deployed. It uses the same functionality that beacons use. A T1 needs a single person to activate, T2 2 agents, T3 3 agents and T4 4 agents. Energy acts like a liquid as such it can be deployed in a single area and drain the field. Multiple can be put out, but then that could be your downfall!

Once activated it starts to harvest energy. But this attracts the local Nia population, your stealing their power!

Randomly enemy bots of the local island colour spawn 300-500 meters from the harvester. their job is to destroy it as soon as possible. Agents are then needed to defend the harvester for as long as they want or need. The spawns continue unit the harvester is full or removed from the field.

Depending on the island type depends on the spawn that attacks. Alpha 1 islands has the smallest and weak group of spawns. Of course you could use a T4 here, but it will never been completely full. It will still need to be defended. as a added option, the harvester armour cannot be repaired on the field.

Once full or the group/agent has had enough they interact with the unit and and it takes 10-15 seconds to take the unit from the field.

Once they have the unit, they take it to specific place on each island ( perhaps only on Alpha's? ) to empty and repair. I thought I saw the Devs already have this type of deliver area ready, remember the cool animation of the energy heading off into space?

Reward

Energy can be returned for a credit, or the energy can be taken to be used for other things.

A new currency is made called Energy credits. For energy returned you get points, that can be used to get named ammo, perhaps 2+,3+ equipment. Turning in the power can be shared also with anyone in your squad or to the one agent. Another option is it is used in purchase of T2 ammo.. that is slightly better ammo than standard but not as good as named ammo.. perhaps CTs as well ( only way to get CTs of specific bots is via the Energy credit system ). Just some ideas.

Another option is it can also be removed from the harvester and stored to be used in crafting..

4. Bring back low level observers to Alpha 2!

Backstory
Alpha 2 lets return a bit of brown pants times, by bring back low level observers randomly walking round patrolling like the old days. Alpha 1 understand this is not a good option, but once moved to alpha 2, lets do more to make things dynamic and not a yawn fest smile

Locations - Alpha 2

Mechanics
Random spawn of Assault level observers. Let the agents know the love from local Nia population that they are not welcome here!

Rewards
Man, I remember in Corp when a cry went up for a observer. A group would get together and head out to hunt it down. Those were the days!


I know there is bound of been posts in the past, these are just some ideas I thought I would post up and see if the dev's and community see any benefit from them. Keep the trolls to a minimum smile

Cheers

Duma

6

(116 replies, posted in News and information)

I would like to also back up Arga's post regarding the ability to listen in or listen to the discussion after the fact via a recording or transcript.

A ToG representative would like to listen to the discussion or if not possible this should be available for everyone to listen too since a large number of our players are interested in the conversation. Also, I doubt the timing would be agreeable to most ToG members as they are +10 GMT ( Australia/NZ ), so a recording of the discussion would be a good way for everyone to hear what is being discussed.

Transparency is important here.

Duma

7

(82 replies, posted in Testing server)

* Client crash when creating new Corp level 1 box in newly created POS ( Standard station ). Dump uploaded via crash tool

Hey it confuses even us who run TOG who is TOG and who isn't smile I believe we were in the middle of a "who's on first" situation smile

It was good to See Gemrod again in game yesterday! I look forward to a new Podcast. Always a lot of fun and always well received by the community! I'm sure someone from TOG would be happy to help smile

Cheers

Duma

9

(16 replies, posted in General discussion)

+1

I have a open ticket on this issue and provided images of the same issue. I have also spoken to a Dev on IRC and they believed it to be network/Internet related. I did point out that many others were having the issue and many from my Corp go completely different routes to the game server are still having the issue. I also pointed out people with 60ms ping can recreate the issue by high latency when crossing these boundaries. My ticket is still outstanding from the 25th Feb with no updates.

I do hope we get something from the Devs, because at the moment I am pretty much logging in to do corp work ( hey if you stay docked all seems to be ok of course cool ). the few fights we had over the weekend, were lag fests and extremely frustrating to both sides. I am close to throwing in the towel, not rage quit because of being camped in, or because of some change to the game mechanics, but because we just cannot play because of the Lag. It was never this bad even back during the days of major internet issues or even the DDOS issue.

Please can we get a response from the Devs?

Duma

Further to the above post. We have been able to recreate the N/A Lag spikes after one of our members noticed running over a certain area resulted in it. We tested it with a number of people in the corp and consistently were able to recreate the N/A lag. We also found that Lag spikes occur around 700 meters apart and targeting or firing over these N/A lag areas results in N/A for a period of time.

We have found a number of areas we can easily recreate this issue and have logged a ticket. You may wish to try it yourself ( though it appears 200ms or greater is more effected ). If you find a area of N/A lag on any island. Open the console  ( use the ~ key by default ), type "openprofiler" and run back and forwards over the spot. You will find a large spike in latency or N/A lag, that you can consistently see.

We have logged a ticket with screen shots and points where we can find the N/A lag. This issue appears to affect firing and targeting over the regions and movement. Mining of course does not seem to be affected in these areas.

Thanks

Duma

Hello,
No idea if anyone from the Dev team is reading this. But the majority of our Corp is having issues with N/A Lag spikes when we go into battle be it with NPCs or other players. We can easily recreate just by targeting one another and we get N/A lag. It seems to affect people with higher latency than those with under 200ms. We have traced and many of the members have completely different routes to the server. It has been extremely bad the last 2-3 weeks since the last patch. We are even seeing lag up to 30 seconds when we are grinding NPCs and in battles, some of the guys haven't even seen their deaths due to the Lag being so bad.

Its important to understand that during mining, in station, running around seems to be ok ( not always but 99% of the time its stable and happy ), but as soon as we lock and start shooting many of the corp guys get N/A and we often just sit there not knowing what happens. Its near to unplayable.

Tracing route to 195.228.152.156 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  nexthop.vic.iinet.net.au [203.215.7.251]
  3    17 ms    18 ms    18 ms  te7-2.mel-pipe-bdr2.iinet.net.au [203.215.6.12]
  4    31 ms    31 ms    32 ms  xe-0-1-0-0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.106]
  5   223 ms   223 ms   223 ms  34023.sydp06.cu.reach.com [134.159.160.57]
  6   179 ms   179 ms   179 ms  i-0-0-2-0.paix-core01.bx.reach.com [202.84.140.106]
  7   177 ms   177 ms   177 ms  i-1-2.paix01.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.74]
  8   226 ms   226 ms   226 ms  62.156.138.145
  9   396 ms   395 ms   413 ms  vie-sa3-i.VIE.AT.NET.DTAG.DE [62.154.14.93]
10   373 ms   373 ms   372 ms  194.25.210.178
11   373 ms   375 ms   373 ms  81.183.0.110
12   374 ms   375 ms   411 ms  81.183.0.201
13   376 ms   377 ms   376 ms  81.183.2.197
14   376 ms   375 ms   375 ms  195.228.152.156

BTW, if I do a ping -10000 to 195.228.152.156 and do a quick test.. My client will show N/A yet the ping is constantly around 377ms, here is a time where we tested, so its not dropping as far as we can see ( though we use showprofiler and at times we do have packet loss but its complete loss for a period of time and then all is good and only if we start to shoot someone/something ).

Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=383ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=406ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=112
Reply from 195.228.152.156: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=112

Through this ping my client experienced a number of N/A lag situations.. we were shooting each other in tests.

We have disable shadows, restarted clients etc etc.. and this is now getting beyond a joke. We had a battle this morning with RG, it was extremely frustrating to spend a majority of the battle with N/A and we are getting quite annoyed at it. Prior to the last patch we did not appear to have any of these issues.

We need this looked at ( and saying we have no issues with 80ms ping is not helping many ), but we are starting to get to the point of just saying game is unplayable and go and do something else.

Thanks

Duma

Edit: also when opening NPC containers we get N/A lag. For example, we have 2-3 NPC boxes. We try and access one and N/A lag.. then it comes good and we are able to loot all the containers fine.

Haven't seen that yet or heard from any Corp mates having that issue. Will confirm though.

Opening map however can crash the client ( twice this morning ).

Duma

13

(89 replies, posted in General discussion)

Hello Dev Zoom,
Many thanks for speaking in this thread and the ideas put forward. While I do not speak completely for TOG, I agree that we need to spin from a time consuming to a nic consuming objective to wall maintenance. We do not have a issue with the wall maintenance and in fact were surprised it wasn't there at the start so Corps could plan for such a thing.

As feedback, in future when introducing a new game mechanic you announce the entire mechanic even parts of it that are coming(tm). This will prevent these types of threads in the future. A little communication can go a long way.

I believe you and the other Devs understand the concern the players have with the sudden change. So thanks for that. So from my perspective -

1. Vote No to removal of walls. We are adapting to the metric with a full understanding of what is needed and what we have learned over the last week or so. We maybe broke but we do not want the time wasted planning and building to be in vane. I'd rather grind nic than grind wall repair lol big_smile
2. Tweaking of the way walls are repaired, happy with what ever idea you have to change from time sink to nic sink.

@anyone that states Walls have stopped roaming/PvP. You serious? You must not be on Beta, because we have had more fun in the past week in TOG Corp then for months before hand. It has brought our Corp together like I have not seen in a long time with a goal and enabled us to have more PvP then ever before. Roams arrive daily, we have seen new ways of how the others are getting through the walls, how they are adapting to the changes. When Beta comes to it, we are pretty new and all admit to being noobs. But we are learning and we will try and make it now and bring more PvP to the server than just our roams in the past. To those complaining, what have you done to improve PvP in the past week other than troll in the forums?

Cheers

Duma

14

(89 replies, posted in General discussion)

Alexandra, none of us are complaining about the maintenance and we fully understand that it is needed. But how it was implemented into the game 7 days after fully persistent walls were added to the game. Walls did not decay prior to the "stealth" patch as per the release notes -

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2012-02-08

Perhaps you should read the release notes to understand the issue before commenting on it?

The only issue we have is how it was added to the game without any warning. As such many corps did not plan around this new "feature" and thus wasted time and nic into it. It should of been stated when the walls were put in 7 days ago that this would occur ( yes we all thought it might occur but there wasn't any offical communication that stated this from the Devs or Blog ).

So to sum up -

1. 7 days ago we were given persistent walls in a new patch. New toys in the sandbox yah!
2. The Dev's basically said go wild as per the Dev blog -
Walls can be only deployed on beta islands outside a 1km distance from terminals and teleports to prevent unwanted pool closages, but other than that you’re pretty much free to build anything you want with them. (Somehow I feel I will regret saying this...)
3. walls were persistent structures, requiring no maintenance.
4. Corps went wild.
5. Stealth patch with no word from Devs explaining that this would occur is applied.
6. Corps have spend a huge amount of time and nic on wall structures, if they knew ahead of time that this was going to be the case there would of been a much better use of walls.

The issue is, 7 days ago when walls were added, all the Devs needed to say was "Go for it guys, but be aware in a short time walls will start to decay ( date to be decided ) and require maintenance".

All we ask is communication. Devs will do what they will, but hey a little respect of the player base would be nice. We will adapt, no issue. But just to do this without any communication is not good karma IMHO.

Cheers

Duma

15

(89 replies, posted in General discussion)

Just to be clear here. I like the idea of wall upkeep. I believe that it makes sense that any structure that is made by players needs to be repaired and tended too rather than dumped and left. We will adapt.

What really ticks me off, is this should of been added when walls were introduced, not 7 days after the fact. That is just a serious slap in the face to the Perp players. A stealth patch as well fuuu I know most corps would of been way more considerate in how walls were placed and used if that was the case. But instead, they created a NIC sink that removed a huge amount of nic from the game and then threw in a change in mechanic a week later that basically screwed the majority of corps plans with the defensive walls.

It amazes me that the Devs did not realize that walls would not be over used. Used in ways they never thought of and the one way to prevent such huge amounts of walls being built would of been a upkeep cost..

In future Devs, please introduce new toys/tools to the sandbox feature complete, not a bit here and there.

Thanks

Duma

G'day,
Setting the "Internal corporation adverts" does nothing and shows all Items. Tested on multiple accounts with Corp only sell orders at Shin station.

Its a awesome addiction, just doesn't work as far as I can see.

Thanks

Duma