1 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(26 replies, posted in Balancing)

Syndic wrote:
Xira Indy Production wrote:
Syndic wrote:

What about people who don't find it fun to deal damage?

Some people like to heal.
Some people like to tank.
Some people like to crowd control.
Some people like to do DPS.

Why should damage be king and everyone else get their playstyle & spent EP be thrown under a bus?

There's a lot more of those people then the "losers" posting on the forums about EWar.

The most popular character types in most MMOs (ones that lack an obviously overpowered class) are the DPS/soloers. The other roles should be viable but not dominant. You should cater to the majority, not the minority.

What gives you the authority to state as fact what's most popular?

Why should people be penalized because they enjoy an "unpopular" role?

Why should the game be balanced around the majority instead of a healthy game balance so everything is viable?

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php - 2 most popular are Hunter and Paladin, both arguably 'DPS/jack of all trades' classes. Followed by Druid, the most popular 'healing' class with some DPS.

Other games I have played are similar, but I can't find one for EQ2 or DAOC easily.

I never said they should be completely unviable. I said they should be viable but not dominant. It would be nice if they were useful in small amounts but got less useful the more of them you have in a fleet - but that's a tricky balancing act.

Go to forum: Balancing

2 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(26 replies, posted in Balancing)

Syndic wrote:

What about people who don't find it fun to deal damage?

Some people like to heal.
Some people like to tank.
Some people like to crowd control.
Some people like to do DPS.

Why should damage be king and everyone else get their playstyle & spent EP be thrown under a bus?

There's a lot more of those people then the "losers" posting on the forums about EWar.

The most popular character types in most MMOs (ones that lack an obviously overpowered class) are the DPS/soloers. The other roles should be viable but not dominant. You should cater to the majority, not the minority.

Go to forum: Balancing

3 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(26 replies, posted in Balancing)

Actually, ECM/Supressors is the only thing making it possible for a smaller party to fight a bigger party.

Without ECM/Supressors, EnWar and RR will be unstoppable.

Without ECM, Supressors, EnWar, and RR whoever can field more bots and replace them faster then the other guy wins.

The title is 'Nerf it all!' - you'd have to nerf the other stuff after you nerf Ewar. I thought that's how it was already, whoever can field the most bots wins? What's wrong with industrial production being a factor?

The point of nerfing _everything_ is to make damage king. If damage is king then the game is more fun in the way other games are fun. Losses aren't total and the loser can usually inflict some damage on the winner, which is better psychologically.

There's no mechanic invented that benefits only the smaller group. The bigger group can always take advantage of the same mechanic. You cannot invent stuff based on 5 guys not being able to compete against 50. 50 will always crush 5.

Who said there was? The 5 should lose to the 50, but it would be 'nice' if they could take a bot out before they go down. Currently that's not possible and it's because of all the problems I listed.

-----------------------> "First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game." <----------------------
-----------------------> "First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game." <----------------------
-----------------------> "First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game." <----------------------
-----------------------> "First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game." <----------------------
-----------------------> "First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game." <----------------------

My observations about what other games did are valid. They did these things and these other things happened, which are likely to happen in this game the same way. Perp is not the chosen one, the same principles apply to all games.

I doubt this is even a legit noob. Whether alt or noob his brain is clearly inflicted with STC cool aid

Account is old with some sub time on it, but I only just recently really started playing.
The winners never whine, even if they know something is broken. If you want someone to point out a problem you don't ask the current beneficiaries of that problem.

Go to forum: Balancing

4 Topic by Xira Indy Production

(26 replies, posted in Balancing)

I'm going to postulate what kind of game would be fun for the losers as well as the winners. Or at least not quite so horribly unfun as now. Then I'll delve into how to make that happen with everyone's favorite thing - NERFS!

First I'll state that I don't PVP in this game. Or ever have in any other game. I have played an awful lot of crafters in PVP games though - only PVPing / PVEing when necessary to advance my crafting skills. I've seen games come and go. I've seen some horrible design choices. I've seen whole games empty out in a couple months because the devs didn't fix them fast enough. I've seen devs limp on with bad design for a while then suddenly fixing things and watched populations explode. I've even seen a few devs leave bad design choices in the game and succeed modestly because there was no real competition way-back-when.

I'm posting from experience - not as a ganker but as an observer of trends and design and populations and sometimes victim.

In order for the game to be least painful for the losers of a battle two things need to happen that do not as of now:
1) The losers must be able to fight back or flee in some way.
2) The losers must be able to inflict some degree of losses on the winners if they choose to fight.
3) The losers must have some hope of escape or mitigating their own losses if they choose to flee.

This game fails big time on all 3 fronts. If you get into a fight one side or the other is almost guaranteed a complete kill, especially if they outnumber/outEP the other side. The losers are often so jammed/suppressed/ENWared that they can't fight back. Or the winners are so RRepaired that there are little to no losses on the winner's side. Teleport nerfs and demobs have almost completely removed the ability to flee from a fight.

To fix this? So the losers don't lose by as much and the winner's don't win it all with no losses? Nerf things. A lot of things. I don't know the numbers but I can identify the cause of the problems.

1) Ewar/Suppressors - either of these makes fighting back impossible for the smaller party. The counter to sensor mucking is to sensor muck the other guy first or more. It's got a little bit of 'stunlock' in that the first to ECM the opponent is likely to win if numbers are even, and if not the one with more ECM is likely to win. This is a classic game design mistake - nothing should prevent any person from interacting with an opponent.

I propose drastically buffing ECCM and nerfing suppressors to only affect opponent lock time. Slowing down their damage delivery is fine, preventing it is not. Or you could just remove ECM entirely - it should never have been added like that in the first place.

2) Enwar - this is Ewar once Ewar/suppressors are nerfed. If you can't do anything because everything requires energy and you have none then you are completely nullified. Nullification BAD!

I propose changing Enwar to an effect that increases energy drain of each module you use. So you can still fight, but each action is more expensive - thus you can fight less often or for less time, but you can still fight. Drainers could have a lesser cost-increasing effect but each time the opponent uses energy you get some of it - thus they have to decide if they are going to give you energy or do nothing.

3) Remote Repair - if you nerf Ewar and Enwar this is what you're left with to negate everything the enemy can do. It will need to be nerfed to allow the loser to inflict some damage on the winner - important for psychological coping with losing the fight.

I wouldn't nerf to completely - just drastically so that it takes 3+ bots to negate 1 bot's damage. In compensation it would need to have it's EP cost drastically lowered - it would become the 'newbie thing' that they do until they can get their damage skills up. Perhaps also treat Ewar and Enwar the same - something somewhat ineffective for newbies to do while they train up.

4) Teleports - you want the enemy to have some chance to escape with at least some of their forces, so that a loss doesn't become obliteration. Total losses should be reserved for those that invite them or are unprepared - gamma bases perhaps. With beta as a stopping point on the way there - lose access to your stuff but don't lose the stuff.

I would simply remove the flagging mechanic for using mobile TPs. Perhaps increase the between teleports cycle time of armored TPs so that they can get less of their bots out, but can still get some of them out.

I agree with Syndic that stacking tuners are overpowered. They need to provide diminishing returns - rather than only allowing one. I don't think that will nerf the problems enough though - you want a good fun game base rather than leaving something in that can be abused if they just work it hard enough.

Full EP refunds for all affecting skills should be provided, of course.

Go to forum: Balancing

5 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(320 replies, posted in Testing server)

I don't PVP in this game. I'm not sure where the numbers should be to make ECM/ECCM 'balanced'. I will just share what I have learned from many pvp-based MMOs I have played in the past, some of which were successful and some of which weren't.

Nothing pisses a newbie off faster than getting into a fight and not being able to shoot the other guy. It's a purely psychological thing, the feeling of helplessness as they hurt you but you can't hurt them. It's been compared to being abused by a bully or a cop or a judge, even being ***, someone who utterly controls your fate and can do anything to you they want, and to whom you can do nothing.

Stun-lock KILLS games. The more common the stun-lock the faster people leave the game. It's a horrible game design choice and it causes a lot of whining and grief. The faster you can move away from a stun-lock situation the better.

UO, DAoC, WoW, EQ1, they all had stun-lock situations that were eventually nerfed into the ground. For good reason.

ECM/Suppressors/Enwar are all varieties of stun-lock. I support the notion of drastically reducing them all to mere nuisances.

Even if the game ends up fleets of remote-reps and heavies. Better that than stun-lock that prevents people from playing the game.

Go to forum: Testing server

6 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(54 replies, posted in General discussion)

The game 'requires' you to multi-box because you can derive a large benefit from activities that require only occasional attention.

If being a follow-bot required some sort of mental activity, it wouldn't be nearly as popular to have them on 2nd boxes.

For instance in EQ2 crafting requires you to click things and react to 'problems' to produce each item. Here you just put the CT in and let it run for days, and the product is just as good and almost as much as someone who pays attention to every little detail.

Combat follow bots are even worse, simple click-bots that take zero interactivity once running.

Of course, the enemy can field dedicated EW mechs to disrupt your follow-bots, requiring you to pay more attention, thus reducing their effectiveness. That's only effective in large group combat, which is a rarity.

Go to forum: General discussion

7 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(81 replies, posted in General discussion)

You know, my wife asked me today if she could color her robot pink with hearts on it.

When I said no she was like..."Important feature!"

Pity she would have liked the game too.

Go to forum: General discussion

8 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

[EDIT]Of course what I meant to say was: "Why would you discard your research character?"[/EDIT]

Because I'm only up to T2, and I figure it will take me less real time to re-research it than to wait out the extra EP I'll need to be able to mass produce on the research char.

Plus this way I'll be able to donate the research points to my corp, they'll probably give me something nice for it.

That's a good question. Will I be able to donate my Research points to the corp, or will corps eat kernels directly? Or both?

Go to forum: General discussion

9 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

Cassius wrote:

Of course some people will lose an advantage when things are changed. But IMO the intent of this change is to FIX a cumbersome research system that pretty much EVERYONE in game agrees that it sucks! My attitude is I want this game working better overall so maybe it will actually survive. If it costs me some slight inconvenience so be it. I'd rather waste a week of EP and play a great and lasting game than 2 years of EP on a game that stops existing.

I don't mind them changing things. This seems like a good common-sense change that will make the game more fun. I'm just trying to make them aware that they are making specialization a thing of the past, and I am stating that I think they should offer an EP reset to those affected.

An EP reset won't make me (much) more viable at mass production on Alpha, but it will allow me to keep an account that would otherwise get tossed because it's a dedicated prototype r, and I'm not willing to spend the kernels to get 2 characters up to speed in terms of their knowledge base, now that that will be necessary. I'll likely just let one account expire and wait out the other one while it skills up in terms of prototyping.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has an account this change will make superfluous.

Go to forum: General discussion

10 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

Depends I guess on if it's a significant bonus.

If it's worth the equal of 4-6+ points into a skill, then sure, it's important enough to be 'mandatory'. I'm already at the point where I wish I could max out my production skills all from 8 to 10, that would allow me to compete better on the alpha markets.

There's several items I can't profitably make with 'only' level 6-8 in all production and research/proto and financial skills because of steep alpha competition.(across 2 chars, which makes this extra harsh on me, since I'll have to wait 6+ months to be able to consolidate them on one char, since I had already started EP spending generalizing into mining and combat and such.)

Should alpha markets be closed to anyone under 600k EP? Should there be the ability to specialize in one aspect of production? These changes say one thing, the older game said another. Which is why I think there should be an EP reset of production skills. Since this will drastically affect how competitive some characters are.(namely: ME!)

Go to forum: General discussion

11 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

Answer by Zoom in-game, this will affect Alpha and all other factories. It's a flat production bonus.

Corps with research base now mandatory for all indy guys.

Go to forum: General discussion

12 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

Will the corp knowledge base bonus only affect production in beta/gamma island factories, or will this also affect production on Alpha?

Go to forum: General discussion

13 Topic by Xira Indy Production

(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

I currently have research and recycling on one character and industrial production on another.

With the upcoming changes to research, where you stated that "if you have it researched in your own knowledge base as well as your corps you'll get a factory production bonus", will I need to research everything on my production character as well as my CT-making char?

Can we get a EP reset so I can account for this?

Go to forum: General discussion

14 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(7 replies, posted in Q & A)

I use Desura for a lot of things. Get on both.

Go to forum: Q & A

15 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(156 replies, posted in General discussion)

AnniXa wrote:

Also this item could be make Tradeable, high lvl players will pay alot for it, so it opens a way to transfer alot NIC from the Veterans to the new Players also, and new players can decide if they want to use them or sell them.
in this case it should only be tradeable if a player is not on trial anymore, to prevent veterans from making alot of trial accounts for farming of this item.

Thats what i would try to do.

I like this idea.

Go to forum: General discussion

16 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(34 replies, posted in Balancing)

DEV Calvin wrote:

If a trail account can sell items, he can sell an ammo for 100 million NIC. From this point on, no money from exploits, RMT or any other unwanted activity can be traced.


Funny, WoW does it just fine. In fact they shut down RMT traders whiten seconds and often take the money they just mailed away from the recipient.

You aren't WoW devs, you aren't that good, but you should at least try.

Go to forum: Balancing

17 Reply by Xira Indy Production

(34 replies, posted in Balancing)

Arga wrote:

Again...

While allowing well intentioned trial players to buy items off the market would be a good idea, there's no way to tell if its a good player or a bad player.


The devs very clearly believe this. They also very clearly believe that shooting a dozen men to kill the criminal is a good trade.

So instead of making a system where they allow newbie to thrive, they shut them down and box them off to prevent the 1% that's bad guys from getting away with it.

This game will not be a success until this changes. There's no way they will get enough newbies to grow their game fast enough without making the newbie experience better. They can fiddle around the edges, but the main flaw in the newbie system is lack of access to markets and corps, which must be addressed head on to allow the game to grow.

I hold out little hope the devs will see the light on this matter, they very clearly believe that the baby with the bathwater is a good way to clean out a tub.

Go to forum: Balancing