Evizaer wrote:It was a "this genre is broken and this game isn't doing enough to fix that" post.
The genre isn't broken. Niche, yes, broken, no. The main trouble is that companies who want profit will make themepark games. Sandbox games end up being made by indie devs who lack funding, or experience, or both, and the games they make tend to launch with bugs, memory leaks, client crashes and server instability. (Perpetuum is doing amazingly well here).
Evizaer wrote:There's a reason why most EVE players stick to empire space and Darkfall hasn't increased its sub numbers above (IIRC) 30k. Open world PvP is a very small niche and for a good reason.
Open world pvp doesn't equal sandbox, nor does it have to. All those EVE players living in high sec are still playing a sandbox game, albeit most of their combat is PvE. I can't attribute this fact, but I once saw a statistic that null sec space hosts about 50,000 of EVE's players. That's a pretty respectable proportion if it's true.
Darkfall is (arguably) not a true sandbox* it's just (or was at launch) an open world PvP game and therefore does not support your argument that the genre is broken because open world PvP is broken.
Evizaer wrote:I also was not talking about "instant escape". If someone is capable of assessing the threat level posed by an enemy force, he can easily pick to avoid all fights but those in his favor. I'm not sure what mechanics Perpetuum has in place to avoid this situation, but if it isn't avoided most of the PvP in the game will be ganking. What mechanics are in place to prevent you from accurately estimating the power of your enemy and just avoiding all fights you won't obviously win?
There are two mechanics which do this in games in general. The first mechanic is the carrot, which lures people into PvP zones in the first place. The second mechanic is the lack of either the will or the ability to disengage.
The carrot can't just be mobs that drop better stuff, or better mining yields. It has to be something that players want, and that they will be forced to protect otherwise they risk losing. Such as owned outposts or player structures - which also serve as the second mechanic, because they have to be captured and defended.
I can't really talk about how successfully Perpetuum has done this, because I haven't played long enough to know. The ingredients are there (or in the case of player built structures are in the pipeline).
You can't really prevent people from avoiding engagements they think they won't win. It's human nature, and game mechanics need to work with human nature, not against it.
P.S. Sorry Neoxx for not trolling in your stEVE thread
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*By "sandbox" I mean a game that tries to simulate a world where players take on social, economic and military roles via their interactions with each other, where the content is largely produced by the players themselves using the tools at their disposal.