1 (edited by Burial 2013-03-07 09:19:44)

Topic: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

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If you're reading this sentence then you've pretty much got it. Good job. Just keep going the way you are.

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Basic idea behind the suggestion is to give people on gamma more offensive tools for gamma island attacks and also make it more diverse with different strategic points to build, defend and attack.

In a nutshell, the suggestion would give us two new buildable structures, Missile Launch Facility and Radar. Missile Launch Facility would be the nerve center where Radar sends its information about it's scans and where the actual missiles are being shot from.

The damage that a single shot does has to be small and also the cycle time has to be long, probably in the range of 10 minutes. Little bit more about the missiles in the coming text.


Missile Launch Facility

The Launch Facility would be the nerve center where radars send the information about enemy turrents and where from missiles are launched. The missile launcher would have 50 000km fireing range which means it usually would have to be built outside the main fortified island or it just won't be able to reach the enemy.
Missile Launch Facility will need Radars to aquire and shoot targets.
To make it harder to properly fortify the facility, it should have at least 1km radius non-terraformable, preferably flat, and 3km radius non-buildable areas around it. That effectively means that in order to properly fortify it, the attacker would have to secure over 10km perimeter, which is doable but hard.

Missile Launch Facility can use any number of Radars that are in range.


Radar

To aquire valid targets to shoot from the Missile Launch Facility, you would have to build Radar facillities close to the area you wish to attack. These radars would have a 15 000 km scan range and would feed info about the turrents and structures to the missile launch facility where they can be targeted and shot upon. With such a small scan range, it means they are built basically on the other side of the teleporter if teleport attacking is under attack or on the same island if teleport defenses have already been breached.

Radars will not go into reinforced mode but will be destroyed just like turrents. They would be the main targets defenders would attack and take down since it effectively cliples or even disables the whole systems work.

To make it balanced, radars should have atleast 5km radius of non-buildable area around it.

Radar can be used only by 1 Missile Launch Facility.


Missiles and Damage

Missile launching should be mainly used to make holes into main defence perimeters. The damage missiles do should be relatively low to give defenders time to react. A good start would be 10minute cycle time and about 6 shots to take down a single turrent. That would give defenders an hour before any actual damage is done to disable the Radar or Missile Launch Facility.

  • Missiles should use new mineral that is ONLY mineable from beta islands.

  • Missiles should be just as big that Scarab MK1 can haul 1 and Scarab MK2 can haul two.


Since the Launching Facility where missiles have to be hauled will be at least 3km away from the terminal, it will give the defenders more possible targets to attack and disable(more Scarab MK2 kills, sweet eh?).



--------  Q&A Section  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why can't the defender just turn on repair node or repair it with bots?
A. Only fix I can think for that would be to cast a "Missile Interference" flag on the turrent whenever it is being shot. The flag would last for 20 minutes and make remote repairers and repair nodes have no effect on the turrent.

Q. Why is it too overpowered/underpowered?
A. It all comes down to fine tuning. All of the ranges and amounts should be fine-tuned. Right now the facilities are probably a bit under-powered.

More info coming soon probably.. challange me.

2 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-06 12:14:07)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Yes, more structures is what this game needs...

Although I seem to remember some talk a while back of large slow mechs who were effective against structures.

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Main idea sounds good. Range is PROLLY NOT 100 000 km - interzone is slightly lesser than 30 big_smile

Basically, it's the idea of artillery DEVs were working on, just with buildings. So for buildings I'd rather see:

  • interzone missiles that are manually aimed (click on map where to nuke),

  • should have some ammo clip - says 5 rockets,

  • should have limited fire sector - not the 360 but says 45 or lesser degrees,

  • should have hit dispersion based on explosion radius - no direct hits, let there be some random,

  • should damage everything in radius probably with additional effects like lowering the ground and temporarily turn off plants in that area,

  • should have minimum radius - you can't shoot anything closer than says 5km, defend your missiles

  • should have some way to counter like Anti-Air Turrets that covers some radius and have a chance to intercept a missile

  • optionally, you need to mark your target with marker module (hello Starcraft) for some time to make it possible to shoot that target or decrease hit dispersion

And so on. Probably it will be easier to implement that a deployable artillery weaponry but who knows.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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4 (edited by Burial 2013-03-06 14:20:19)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

I picked 100 000km range as not to force the silo to be built on the next island of the attackee. Once I get home I'll check the map and change it to more reasonable number.

// Changed it now. 50k seems reasonable.

5 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-06 14:34:39)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

So you want players nuking each others bases from 3 Islands away?

Why do you hate the idea of ever seeing another player so much?

Also pls remember that this is not an RTS or Sim City, it is fundamentally a game about robots shooting other robots. Structures, terraforming, etc are there to add to the main gameplay, not replace it.

6 (edited by Burial 2013-03-06 15:01:31)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Not 3 islands away, with 50km range, it would be 2 islands away at best and also don't forget that in order for the launching facility to have targets, you would need to have a radar located within 15km of the targets you plan to shoot. With so short range, radar would have to be on the other side of the teleport or right on the same island.

Attackers would effectively need to defend:
1) Radar(s)
2) Missile Facilities
3) The Scarabs ON THE OPEN FIELD that are carrying ammunition from terminal to launch facility(as mentioned earlier, the terminal would be ~3km from the facility).

Also worth mentioning is that these facilities will most likely not be very well fortified. This can be tweaked by setting all kinds of range restrictions on the radar and launch facilities.

As for the damage that one shot does: It should be small damage and slow cycle time to give the targets enough time to react, find facilities and mount an attack. If the cycle time is 10 minutes and each turrent takes about 6 shots to take down, it would already give targets almost an hour before any actual damage is done.


What stops from someone just building and reinforcing a bunch of radars and facilities? Nothing, really. But it has to be tweaked so it is just not worth the effort. Having a 3km no-build no-terraform radius around the buildings(due to "interference" or whatnot that fits into the lore) would make the area just way too big to reinforce properly(would be about 10km stretch that needs defences).

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Radar sounds good. It should be easily spotted and more or less easy destroyed and there should be a time delay between radar is deployed and missile is launched - so you need to protect that radar, nut just ninja-shoot. It also should be big enough that you need at least a sequer to bring one and it should disappear on the timer ends like a tp beacon.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

how do you prevent this from being used defensively.

9 (edited by Burial 2013-03-06 15:12:44)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Kokomut wrote:

how do you prevent this from being used defensively.

What stops from someone just building and reinforcing a bunch of radars and facilities? Nothing, really. But it has to be tweaked so it is just not worth the effort. Having a 3km no-build no-terraform radius around the buildings(due to "interference" or whatnot that fits into the lore) would make the area just way too big to reinforce properly(would be about 10km stretch that needs defences).

Extra stuff:
One thing that comes into my mind is making it so that radars don't really need terminals to function and the no-structure area would be even bigger. That coupled with the fact that radars are probably close to a teleport would make it more logical to mount defence ops there straight from the missile launch facility(that would often be on the same island or just 1 jump away).

10

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

What I would like to see in this arena is NEW bots to takes these roles.

Either New Heavy Mechs or (new class) Super Heavy Mechs !!

They would have Large weapons that would only be able to target (stationary Targets) or targets being marked with in game target markers.

Target markers would allow these large weapons to shoot at really long optimal range 1.5k +

Large weapons should have a huge hit dispersion making them useless against anything other that a building

Could go as far as to require several mods to make these guns work
     Example: Scout bot has to have a signal detector target marker to spot the target location
                    But Also the Scout needs to have a targeting relay to feed the location information to the shooter

This would work well for attacking bases..the inter island missiles sound cool also i just think the current mechanics would not allow for it with out huge revisions in the code and how the islands are viewed from the coding level.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Dazamin wrote:

So you want players nuking each others bases from 3 Islands away?

Why do you hate the idea of ever seeing another player so much?

Also pls remember that this is not an RTS or Sim City, it is fundamentally a game about robots shooting other robots. Structures, terraforming, etc are there to add to the main gameplay, not replace it.

First post is updated, should give you better understanding of the idea.

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Burial wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

So you want players nuking each others bases from 3 Islands away?

Why do you hate the idea of ever seeing another player so much?

Also pls remember that this is not an RTS or Sim City, it is fundamentally a game about robots shooting other robots. Structures, terraforming, etc are there to add to the main gameplay, not replace it.

First post is updated, should give you better understanding of the idea.

I understand it fine, I just don't understand why having bots to perform this role isn't preferable in every way?

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

hmm i dont mind this idea. would bring some of the risk back to gamma living.

However it still doesnt change the fact that Terra forming still needs to be changed / balanced better.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

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Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

common tactic in supreme commander - if you can't get your units through your opponents defenses, you start to nuke him, until hi runs out of interceptor missiles.

same as in that game - the first who gets a missile through, has won the game.
This will break down to add artifical, unlogical rules, like nukes not beeing able to kill terminals or production facilities, only defense turrets (what the heck is a turrent?)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

15

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Annihilator wrote:

(what the heck is a turrent?)


lol Burial you have been around Merkle a little to long

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

-1

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Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Tux wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

(what the heck is a turrent?)


lol Burial you have been around Merkle a little to long


FU  fuuu

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Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

This could work provided there where also bots able to perform the same task to a lesser degree; a glider with a bloody huge rocket rack(needing defenders, scouts/target markers, etc)? 

There is also the posibility of adding things like Cluster Missiles to damage a wide area(get these going and chew through the repair node accumulator before the siege bots arrive), Agent Orenge Bombs(oh look, I found your Noralgis fields... pity they don't have the anti-missile disruption that Outposts have...), E-War Missiles(dumps payload of proximity probes over a large area), Bunker Busters(see that teraformed wall with no buildings on it... flattened).

Keep the hard fighting on the side of the bots but make the missile silo a good way to maintain ongoing hostile activity that will require maintenance.

Sociorum, inimicos, omnes

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Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

That brings us back to Destroyers and my Seraph. No even lil' info on how's things going on with those.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

20 (edited by Burial 2013-03-07 17:10:02)

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Dazamin wrote:
Burial wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

So you want players nuking each others bases from 3 Islands away?

Why do you hate the idea of ever seeing another player so much?

Also pls remember that this is not an RTS or Sim City, it is fundamentally a game about robots shooting other robots. Structures, terraforming, etc are there to add to the main gameplay, not replace it.

First post is updated, should give you better understanding of the idea.

I understand it fine, I just don't understand why having bots to perform this role isn't preferable in every way?

Bots are too temporary the way they are now. They can easily log out in few minutes and then they are gone from the field and in total safety. With structures, the whole operation becomes harder and more meaningful. It also gives the side that is being targeted more options on what to attack and disable. They can go after radars which is most likely closest and easiest point or they can go after the main facility. There are more options of course.

I don't mean that bots shouldn't be able to perform similar actions by themselves at all, Tux's idea on having 1.5-2km range bots coupled with target markers is awesome but suffers from the same faith: very temporary. Easily killed, easily logged to safety, easily replaced. Good idea non-the-less.

In your previous post you said like I have something against ground PVP but you didn't realise that such changes actually increase gamma ground PVP tremendously. Right now, we have couple of gamma islands that are really hard to siege. People have gone all-in on securing the island because who wants to have their huge investment and central bank destroyed. With the new structures there would be more points of interest and with the restrictions mentioned in the first post, assaults done to them would be a lot more effective than what gamma fights are right now.

Also, as mentioned in the first post, missiles would not be used to tear down the whole enemies base but to only make a hole in their defences perimeters.

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

I like the base idea
but I dont like to nuke more than 1 island.

I am sure the DEVs has the plan/ideas to siege Gammas, just dont exactly know what will implement.

So for the first step I like this idea. Easy and good enough. Just need some fine tuning.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Inda wrote:

I like the base idea
but I dont like to nuke more than 1 island.

I am sure the DEVs has the plan/ideas to siege Gammas, just dont exactly know what will implement.

So for the first step I like this idea. Easy and good enough. Just need some fine tuning.

well we waited how long for TFing to come into this game? Yeah im not holding much hope for proper siege mechanics for a very long time (years) sad

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

I like all these ideas in general, although they still need fix the 2x2 tile bot issue to bring bigger mechs, if it can ever be done. With AC looking for an investor and more staff, can be implemented in around a year I guess.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Celebro wrote:

I like all these ideas in general, although they still need fix the 2x2 tile bot issue to bring bigger mechs, if it can ever be done. With AC looking for an investor and more staff, can be implemented in around a year I guess.

And that's why the buildings are better - they are'nt moving.

Now look what we have - ark-shoot mechanics developed for artilery, terraforming, buildings, interzone beacons. Mix all that together, shake it, add or repaint meshes - and voila! - put it on the test server for balancing.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Missile Launch Facility, Radars and more strategic points

Line wrote:

...put it on the test server for balancing.

well i remember building a station on the test server when it was up for gamma testing. i invited the whole server to test it. we still had plenty of ppl in game and it was a fair time on the weekend when normaly a lot ppl were on.

if i remember correctly not even 10 ppl showed up.

so much for test it on the test server... ^^